engine tapping/knocking

[yamaman]

Maybe camchain guides??????

Have you drained the oil yet? Remove oil & bottom strainer, plastic bits there & your cam chain guides are shot! Can run if that's the drama, depends how happy you are to have strips of plastic running around in your engine! Once the plastic stops coming, then it's the ali starts grinding away! Really sounds like whatever it is, the engines gotta come out....

 

[Sundie]

I've found that it's usually a total delamination, and you'll find the strip of plastic dropped into the engine waiting for you. The aluminum starts wearing right away when this happens. And makes a very tinkly noise when idling.

 

[gonefishin485]

hmm, well i reckon draining the oil and checking it is cheaper and easier than tearing into the top end. ill give it a shot and let you know the results

 

[gonefishin485]

ok, so heres what i come up with

i started out by pulling the oil plugs, and they werent too bad

so i cleaned them off, and set them to the side

so i pulled the sump out

and it looked like this

the whole time, im looking for bits of black plastic, i dont see any, but there are aluminum shavings, which had me worried

then i noticed this little bugger in here

so i pulled the filter off, and found 1 little strip of plastic and some more aluminum shavings

so i at that point i decided to pull the filter out the side, and low and behold what do i find???

well that was yesterday, today i popped the top end off, i couldnt get the motor out of the bike so i just wiggled it to where i could work on it (back injury), i get the head off and what do you know

the plastic came off its little sled, and was sitting in the bottom of the motor

but fortunately my rear slider looks alright, so im not going to fool with it

however i will change the head gasket and the slider while im in here, im not really going to mess with much else except for re-lapping the valves, changing the stem seals, and new gaskets and filters.

 

[gonefishin485]

ok, update

i give up, i put over a hundred dollars worth of parts into the top end of the bike, i fire it back up, and its STILL KNOCKING!

now you wanna hear something really crazy? if i lean it over on the side stand while its idling, it stops! stand it up straight and it starts tapping again.

im begging you people out there, please help me, im at my wits end, im unemployed, i spent the last little bit of money i had to fix it, im on my last leg and limpin on that one. this bike use to be the only thing that gave me a little joy in life, and now its driving me into madness, someone out there, please, for the love of God, help me

 

[xsjohn]

Lean the bike and the knocking stops..........have you checked the clutch.......and you can take the clutch completely out and put the cover back on and refill with oil.....it will start on the electric start without the clutch......of course it won't go but you can eliminate the clutch and transmission in case the noise was there... did you check the stator to see if it may be loose...?...keep pluging.......and could the noise be something else ratteling.....banging around on the frame with a rubber hammer can sometimes find rattles.............

xsjohn

 

[ironwill]

I was curious what wear's out, when the plastic slider chunks out into the oil, and where do the Aluminum shavings come from? Is it typical to find aluminum, when changing oil, and such?

 

[Sundie]

It's not actually plastic in the slider. It's a hard rubber of some sort. Then it cooks in the hot oil for a while. This is normally fine. But then it sits for x number of years, drying out. And when you start the bike back up again, it delaminates (ie, falls off) the aluminum backing.

The cam chain then proceeds to start sawing into the aluminum (really only at idle - at higher rpm's, there's enough tension on the spring it doesn't slap back and forth) backing, thus aluminum shavings.

 

[gonefishin485]

well the noise sounds like its coming from the top end, im really tried of it, im about ready to give up on this damn thing

 

[xsjohn]

Jees I have put them together with a bad main bearing had to do it all again.......just part of the fun owning these..........do you have a mechanics stethoscope......you can get them on ebay for next to nothing.......and I don't know if I mentioned it but a main bearing will sound like the top end because the sound travels......right side mains have a metalic clack to them and center mains has a rousy whirl sound........big ends can sound like a lot like right side mains with a clack to them....or a whirl if they aren't too bad...not saying any of thise things are your noise ....just wanted you to be aware of it...........

xsjohn

 

[xjwmx]

What's a rousy whirl sound like?

 

[xsjohn]

Not sure now.......think I was trying to say Rousty...if thats's even a word........

 

[xjwmx]

A whirl that sounds like roustyroustyroustyroustyrousty?
There's another whirl that sounds like hissssssssssssssssssssssss that's normal. At least I hope so....

 

[ironwill]

I wonder if you remove the oil filter/strainer assembly, does that give enough room to get a wiggle on the rods to see if there is any play in the bearings? Seems like when I had mine off, you had some access to the bottom end, but I could be wrong.

 

[xjwmx]

i give up
i think its just going to be in my best interest to take it to a shop and have someone look at it, my cousin has some friends?

In my experience a good shop will immediately know what the sound is when they hear it, and a lot of them are busy enough that they don't need the work. Ride it down there and ask them what the sound is.

 

[gonefishin485]

well its more of a knack knack knack knack knack

 

[xsjohn]

Betting it's the R/S main.....when these have sat for years condensation gets where the bearing rests on the race and pits the race........ after a few miles they can begin to clank or knack as you said..........I know the sounds well........

xsjohn

 

[gonefishin485]

why all of a sudden start doing it? ive put 3000 miles on the bike since i bought it last year.

and respectfully, that doesnt explain why if it leans over on the side stand the noise stops

 

[xsjohn]

That leaning over and it goes away thing stumps me at the moment.....unless there is something loose on the clutch or the springs on the back of the clutch ...or the shift shaft c-clip is missing alowing the shift arm to move inward and touch the spinning clutch....or the stator loose.....?.....

Just in case """""" If """"" it is the R/S bearing...for your info...... you could take the engine out........remove the cam without cutting the cam chain and leaving the head and cylinders on and take off the right engine case.......turn the engine upside down and remove the bottom..(hidden nut behind the clutch too)...so far all easy stuff.....with the pistons down then pull the crank out rotating it enough to acces the R/S bearing....and at that time you can slide the races off the 2 centers and the left to see if there is damage...............spray the R/S bearing with brake cleaner spinning it and check for damage.....if bad with a bearing puller remove the bearing and replace....sucking the new bearing on with large sockets or such and the crank shaft bolt.....centers or left replace the crank........thinking about it is worse than doing it.........

xsjohn