For Sale - For Sale Running 1982 XS650 Chopper Screamin Demon Suicide Shift (SOFT TAIL CHOPPER ??)

[webbrs]

Yamaha XS650 SHB. Running and ridable. Is up for auction on ebay currently, item no 275329774004 for I just lowered the starting price to $2750. (added 6/4/22 Any reference to the price on this thread is in reference to the original $4500 asking price I started with. Not in reference to the current price) This bike is so fast. I have figured out while working on it that his setup can be easily altered to make it into a soft tail. How kick ass is that? The lower swingarm struts are bolted on and mounts can be created to place shocks in the area. This would be the only soft tail XS650 that I know of. If I were keeping it, I would do it. Not that the hardtail is a problem because I dig it but it would be very unique with a soft tail setup. Maybe a one off. The carbs have been rebuilt with fresh float needles and seats/rings plus gaskets, the battery is fresh, the final touches are being put on and all polished up. Painting the tank and I really like where it is going. I will upload fresh pics and video but the holiday weekend has stranded some parts in the mailbox until Tuesday but are in town and ready to install. All new bearing packs and seals, clutch pack and springs, fork oil and motor oil all have been changed. The valves are set and the timing is correct. The carbs were balanced but I live in South Texas and will need to be re-jetted for anywhere else. Have owned since '15 All parts purchased through Mike's XS. The included Clymer manual for this model is very concise and detailed. Maltese cross brake/tail light with led bulb. The machine is sound with no squeaks or knocking when rolled. Extra oil pan plate and filter are in great shape and the filter is serviceable no doubt. Included are the manual and a hydraulic floor jack plus the float needle tool I created to rebuild the carbs. The first pics are when I got it and I added the finned oil filter cover and replaced the entire brake system including the correct wheel, disk, and speedo gear rear drum brakes are nice and thick. The pearl clear coat is causing an issue in the pics I will try to correct it to give a better idea of the paint. It looks pretty good for a non pro paint job. If any questions just ask.

 

[BluzPlayer]

I love the fins on the clutch cover.
Interesting suicide shifter.
Is that an old Hurst shifter?
Also a very unique seat suspension with the leaf spring. I've never seen that before.
Best of luck with your sale.

 

[webbrs]

Hurst shifter, probably. Our streets are the definition of bad. ( how bad is it ?... lol) I can't use any other light bulb than a led or it won't last a week, and you don't even know it is a hardtail.
Thank you. I am going ahead on ebay without the escrow option, that is just wierd and you cannot add a buy it now unless you pay for the big salad? Forget them. Just fyi shifter is easily converted back as well. The build has some unique forethought put into it.

 

[webbrs]

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[webbrs]

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[webbrs]

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[JesseeS]

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[webbrs]

I know. It is a toss up. I feel that these machines are definitely worth this amount ($4500). So, do I weed out the bidding war to get to the real buyer or allow the bidding war and risk not getting what I feel I should. Everyone is looking for a deal but I am looking for the next true owner. Who sees the machine and the potential of what it can become, not the price tag. Never once have I ever remembered how much something cost as long as it fulfilled the desire and accomplished why I bought it. ( cry once or cry forever) There is much more to her and so many directions it can go. I feel the value floor needs to rise as well. These motorcycles have out grown their "neat bikes for little money" phase. They are expensive to put together. If you built this you would be out more than I am asking for sure and we all know there is a great disparity in the amount we invest and the amount we recover in any restore or custom builds. Goes with the ride but there should be a better premium for these than there is, I feel. Here we are on a forum dedicated to the one motorcycle model. These are vintage unique experiences that are not being produced anymore and those of us that have them seldom let them go unless life sort of pushes us in that direction. I mean I owned a 1986 FXSB badass HD but all in all, it was electrical, metal and rubber. Most of which is made in japan anyway and so what is the difference? This is still running and the HD never did. In 13 years of owning it I drove it maybe two of them. But it was worth twice this?, and like a Triumph has boat loads of appeal across many genres unlike a pigeon toed HD. We set our values. ( sorry soap box'in I'll stop) Plus the economy is in a direction of increased prices but I feel this is in the ball park. Thank you for the notes. I was afraid no one was even looking lol.

 

[webbrs]

I dig your avatar my man. JG is a super genius and this is exactly the discussion type (economics) I would have with him if he were a "dinner guest" ( obviously at the top of the list). I have always wanted to know and since you brought it up I would open this up for "the talk".

The talk of the value of the "rebuilt and restored" bike. It is still used. 1st off ( and zero disrespect to those that do rebuild them) unless there are pics of the build and I would go no other way, how do you know it is rebuilt and restored unless you tear it down? I can look at my pistons and they are clean as crap but it hasn't been rebuilt. I could lie maybe, they are that good. But no. Now you are paying for trusts of which I do not have.

2nd. Before anyone takes on a project there is a line that determines whether the project is feasible. I have seen build sheets for the top end machines and I can tell you there is no financial advisor on earth that would look at the build materials list cost of production, and the current market value, and sign off on it. It is a loss from the start. The only cost reduction is the labor because parts cost what they cost and they too are going up. You have to include shipping and taxes as well. Travel time and gas are now a factor. The total build sheet. The risk. So in order to close to break even ( I can almost guarantee there is a loss plus you devalue your labor. ) you work for free. And this is no easy task these rebuilds. I am not talking the custom choppers either. Where there is so much fabrication. The stock or close to it restores are the worst because you must get the correct part. Someone will come along and call you out if you are off and claim something. And even then you are building to a very specific market. That is a lot of cash for a stock motorcycle this old. I would pay more for a custom but that is me. You must wait to locate and or repair parts and that takes from your profit because your deadline cannot be met. It has to be right so there is hunt time as well that must some times be factored in. If I am off base call me on it because I have done many loving restores in my time from a Flybaby airplane to a Lincoln MK4, the Harley which went so close to stock and was on an acceptance list to the HD museum, the parts wait times were in the years; a jeep and this. I burned a ton of cash on nickel and dime stuff. We all know we don't get it back out most of the time. We do it because for most of us it is a project but some try to make a living at it. The projecteers do not get a materials list ( or at least I didn't) before hand and do all the math because we know it will either freak out the Mrs., or we would run for the hills and that won't get the vision done.

Why then do the prices when the costs are so high, stay so low?
Why is the acceptance for the bottom dollar the norm and not actually what the build reflects? It is a matter of time more than anything I am sure but do the builders actually think that people won't pay for what they want. I remember back in the early nineties when you had to back order a Heritage ST and the wait was about a year but the cost. $30,000 for a motorcycle. People paid it. I knew one of them. Only the builder can value his own labor. I am interested in the thoughts of those that have taken on these builds and how they looked at it when they finished the transaction if they sold it. If you keep it that is different I think. More personal money sort of stops mattering but then you may have to sell it one day.

 

[BluzPlayer]

Well policy is not to detract from someone's for sale ad. Since you asked for discussion I will simply add this. Many of your assessments are correct but still may miss the mark. The farther one falls from the stock bike, the less premium is earned. That applies even to those like myself that love and prefer custom. That is because most want the custom to be custom to them.
The farther down the custom road you go the smaller the audience for your build becomes.
Design choices become important unless the design is solely to fit you and your personal vision. Unique does not necessarily equate to value. I personally find some of the touches on your particular bike interesting and unusual, however it does not mean those are things I would personally incorporate. The mismatched wheels, the unusual tank, the seat suspension, the locked swingarm, the suicide shifter; these are all things that can add value provided you can connect with somebidy that is like minded. They are also all design decisions that can detract from the price for others. You mention the "potential" in the bike and how some of these features can be easy changed. "Potential" bikes, or project bikes requiring more work are not generally viewed at the same value as rebuilt/restored machines. The fit and finish. The details that finish a bike often tell a lot about the quality of a build. Obviously documentation of the build accompanied with pictures of the process can add value as well. Reputation of the builder can add value. Obviously the value of the vision is always greater to the one with the vision. I know that my build is being designed and built for me and by me. My design choices are not influenced by the greater majority and as a result the value of the build will most likely be reduced once it is completed. I build it knowing this. The pool of potential buyers gets smaller with custom builds that stray a bit out of the lines. Especially when the bike has yet to achieve a finished look. You mentioned the options available as far as waiting for what you believe the value to be or lowering the price in an effort to generate interest. You are the one to make that determination. You definitely have a unusual and unique bike and you may well find the one that it takes to make your day. I wish you nothing but the best with the sale. A thread outlining the build and showing how it came together couldn't hurt. Many on the site do their build threads post build.
Again, good luck.

 

[webbrs]

Well policy is not to detract from someone's for sale ad. Since you asked for discussion I will simply add this. Many of your assessments are correct but still may miss the mark. The farther one falls from the stock bike, the less premium is earned. That applies even to those like myself that love and prefer custom. That is because most want the custom to be custom to them.
The farther down the custom road you go the smaller the audience for your build becomes.
Design choices become important unless the design is solely to fit you and your personal vision. Unique does not necessarily equate to value. I personally find some of the touches on your particular bike interesting and unusual, however it does not mean those are things I would personally incorporate. The mismatched wheels, the unusual tank, the seat suspension, the locked swingarm, the suicide shifter; these are all things that can add value provided you can connect with somebidy that is like minded. They are also all design decisions that can detract from the price for others. You mention the "potential" in the bike and how some of these features can be easy changed. "Potential" bikes, or project bikes requiring more work are not generally viewed at the same value as rebuilt/restored machines. The fit and finish. The details that finish a bike often tell a lot about the quality of a build. Obviously documentation of the build accompanied with pictures of the process can add value as well. Reputation of the builder can add value. Obviously the value of the vision is always greater to the one with the vision. I know that my build is being designed and built for me and by me. My design choices are not influenced by the greater majority and as a result the value of the build will most likely be reduced once it is completed. I build it knowing this. The pool of potential buyers gets smaller with custom builds that stray a bit out of the lines. Especially when the bike has yet to achieve a finished look. You mentioned the options available as far as waiting for what you believe the value to be or lowering the price in an effort to generate interest. You are the one to make that determination. You definitely have a unusual and unique bike and you may well find the one that it takes to make your day. I wish you nothing but the best with the sale. A thread outlining the build and showing how it came together couldn't hurt. Many on the site do their build threads post build.
Again, good luck.

So true on all counts. Yes that is what I want to hear. I appreciate your opinion. Plus you can provide an insite to the why. You are building to you. Well you are putting some effort into your build that at the current time you may or may not choose to ever sell( i didn't) but things change. Now we went about "building" ( because we really didn't we do R n R ) these part by part over time without consideration to the gas or the shipping or the taxes because it was for our own enjoyment. Then comes the time to sell and those little things that added up you have to choose whether or not that added value to the item as well. If you added up all of your receipts how much would it be? ( I throw them away for that reason LOL) If it is way more than you know you can get for the machine then I guess we are just throwing that money away? How hard was this part to get? What hoops did we have to jump to get it to fit and look right. There are a lot of little things to it I think. So how would you price your machine if you found yourself having to sell? I know there are some items if under examination you feel you would lose money on? Other buyers may not be attracted to, but that wouldn't keep you from doing it, would it? So how would you price that I wonder. I feel there is really no way to break it down like that. Or there is. No idea. Now if I were building to sell you would most assuredly be right about public opinion. I am not. I would keep this forever but I play golf for children's charity and got t-boned by a dumb ass a few years ago. Had I been on this I would have lost my left leg. It would have been bad and I just cannot take the risk right now. It is too important that I move forward.

Whether or not something adds some value or not is subjective but the core fact remains. These are getting scarce let alone running and together. What I find amazing is that I was reading about the GS models and the premium they bring. Where as my very rare 1986 fxsb lowrider did not bring any substantial premium over standard. And parts were hard to find. Everybody is looking for something for nothing too. I had originally thought a good start price was 3250. But I feel that is shortchanging this machine. While this machine has a slew of personable upgrade potential it is not in the project phase either and is a running very fun and eye catching machine. You will see I have finished much of the rough looking stuff that may have looked unfinished before, ( I liked the rat look) but it is really coming together nicely. I was hoping to point out these things are not that much work to make them happen as would be a project machine with a bunch of parts in a pile. More of a revamp of what is already existing and can be done without any real down time. In the case the new owner liked the arraignment but was leery of the setup and their own skill level they could, if needed, get it back to a more familiar setup easily. The SS is truly a pleasure to learn and ride. I learned it in less than an hour. It just feels awesome shifting it out like that.

 

[BluzPlayer]

Well Webbrs, ultimately the market will decide.
I can tell you that I have planned my build pretty much and left room for the occasional detour.
I have attempted to gather my parts and what I consider value. Many parts will be new of course. All used parts will be inspected and refurbished as new. It includes a rephase, a 750 big fin big bore kit. A shell #1 cam. New custom painted gas tank. Modified powdercoated hardtail frame. Shooting for a belt drive. Hydraulic clutch. Pma with a vape style ignition using a gonzo mashup with back up points system. Doing all the work myself including the engine build, frame mods, paint, and powdercoat which saves tremendous costs. My parts including my build bike and parts bike along with my parts will not add up to your asking price. Perhaps close. Admittedly I have been gathering the parts for years and have been frugal where posible which generally equates to more time, and work by me none of which is included in the my cost estimate. I will recoup some of that cost by selling parts from my R6 parts bike. I also have 1977 xs650 which I may or may not build as well. It is possible I will unload it or parts of it to defray the cost more. My goal is to be complete at 3k net without labor. But it will be what it will be. The cost of the parts in the bike itself will most likely be in the ballpark of your asking price. The build will be as new. Refurbished. Reconditioned as new or actually new. I expect it to perform as such. I doubt I will sell it. Perhaps give it to my son if I tire of it.
But if I HAD to sell I would like to think the costs of the parts could be recouped. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it failed to reach that number considering the sheer amount of modifications I am intending. Of course my build will be fully documented. Again the market will always decide. You may consider expanding your reach by advertising in other markets which never hurts in helping to reach a larger audience, perhaps catching the eye of someone sharing similar tastes.

 

[Niels B]

Many wise words and thoughts on this string. I love when someone actually build a custom bike that’s unik and not just “ of the shelf “ parts from some mass produced “custom” brand. The problem is obviously that the custom is for one specific person or it may attract a few likeminded that really want that specific look - hence price can be set high. I have decided to go the route of making them back to stock - with original parts whenever possible. Whether you build custom or stock you rarely get anything close to the money ( and especially time ) you put into it. I kind of fall in “love” with my builds and have a hard time letting go of any bike - and whenever I do I alway ask to little because I don’t add up the cost and time spend - maybe that’s why I rarely sell a bike - especially if I can find room to keep it - presently own 9 bikes from the 1940 to 2005, most are from the mid 1970ties. Good luck - hope someone see the value in the work.

 

[webbrs]

Wow Niels, You have what I would call a collection. lol. Keep it going. I didn't think I would ever sell this bike after getting one again. I had one long ago and got weaseled out of it but I found this one and just love it. I really appreciate the input from you guys. I am not sure how much i am trying to "recover" or what I feel the motorcycle should sell for. Yeah bluz, I cannot wait to see how that all turns out. Good luck sir and thank you for the well wishes and to you as well. Meanwhile I am going to get on my (ahem running) bad motorscooter and ride alright alright alright ( Montrose yeah baby!)

 

[gggGary]

They're worth what someone's willing to pay.
Sunk costs have no meaning in the market.
If you have patience and keep the ad out there in various places that perfect buyer may happen along.
But you may be kissy kissy with a lot of turds in the mean time.
At 3K$ and up for an XS650; buyers are expecting a ready to ride, no maintenance, engineering, fiddling, needed bike, human nature.

 

[webbrs]

It's a decision for sure. I will test the market a little. I should have pics up by tomorrow, I hope. Depends on the tank drying in this humidity. I have a fan running near as to bring it down a bit. Seems to be going atp. You and bluzplayer mentioned other markets, Brother if you could lend some links, it would be a help. And if I could ask would any of you mind placing a link to the ebay auction and/or this forum on your local craigslist, it would really be appreciated. And if you want me to do the same for you, I am sure willing. I am not sure if the conversion is understood but it is the hand lever and the foot lever. The cable mounts to the hand lever. It is still stock length. Plus I am disappointed how the case hardening look of the tank never transmitted. It works for firearms but not for motorcycles. It leaves them too unfinished looking and raw I guess. The softtail is a literally a couple of welds. I feel it could be started on a saturday morning and running again sat nite. The setup is already done. I dig these bikes man. As we all do.

 

[webbrs]

Hey Bluz, a tad off topic here but while I have you, I just upgraded my fender frontman10g with a Jensen C6v. I haven't broken it in yet but it sounds decent, not really what I thought or hoped but I haven't really had the chance to dial it in. My LP seems to have less body than it did with the stock speaker? Weird. Do you have any experience with the 6" Eminence replacement speaker ( actually any Eminence guitar speakers for that matter.) ? ( very small apt with a huge garage lol) The Eminence caries quite the price tag. I wonder just how worth it they are. I would have gotten the A6v but I was thinking since I don't play through pedals but a pedal board, the ceramic would be a better reproduction of the tone without coloring it like the alnico would, but the C6v seems a bit too sterile. ( trust me this amp is too much for the apt and is even louder with the new speaker.) The stock broke up at like 2.4 vol and this one doesn't present sound until 2 vol. I like the volume boost and it is clear through the range and doesn't really start to break up until about 8 or so. It just isn't quite there yet though. The C6v is a very well built speaker I have to say.

 

[BluzPlayer]

Webbrs,
I haven't had any amps or cabinets with an Eminence speaker/s. I have old original Alnico and Jensens now. My gear is listed the thread "Musical Instruments (any)"
You will find several other members posting in there as well. Perhaps if you post your question about speakers there, one will spot it and can answer your question. Dialing a sound in can take a bit of effort but once the work is done the enjoyment is never-ending.

As for the bike, there are the usual suspects for listing. Ebay. Facebook Marketplace, craigslist.
Perhaps a forum that is more chopper centric.
Locally you could attend bike shows or even car shows where motorheads like to find themselves with a sign on it. Indeed anyplace with a gathering of motorcycles. When there is no urgency to sell, you can float the market for a longer period. Better chances of a sale near home as the transportation fees add another premium of dollars to the cost of the bike.
Good luck.

 

[webbrs]

So true again. thanks for the tip. I am gonna peek in over there and take a look around.
I am finding reason to lower my initial price too. It is in great running condition but the detail may be lacking for the market attention plus shipping like you said is going to factor in a bunch now too. . . seems you gotta spend way more to get up to that level HAHA. I was looking at some of the sleds on 650chopper.com and wow. That's coin drop.

 

[webbrs]

gggGary kissy assy lol. I hate that. You bring up a good point. Sunk money. Now I think on my machine and many other well choppers but not so much with the stock restores, there are handmade parts on them. A bunch of them. Like mine. The entire clutch pedal and mounts, the forward sets with the consideration to return to stock option, ( you literally only have to add the hand, foot, brake lever and foot pegs, the mounts are still there to make it standard shift) was fabricated start to finish as was the tank, ( which was a beeeaaaach btw try to get that thing to stop leaking and still have decent edges...) the tail light/ LP frame, and the frame mod. The struts were designed and hand built to hard tail it and the seat was designed, fabricated and covered by hand, with real hide. I have ridden a few motorcycles and none of them have half a suspension, they ain't Lincolns lol, and with the seat springs I cannot tell a difference in shocks or this. It is much different than a hard tail to frame seat. If someone were to add the soft tail that would be a pretty choice ride I think. Now I do not think I am involving the front wheel set up even though I replaced everything because you have to have a front wheel to ride lol. And not really all of the internal clutch work and carb or tuning work that is all standard to a running motorcycle. That aside I believe hand crafted work should bring a higher premium. Whilst mine is a bit selective in customer base true, to that customer base ( keep in mind I am doing the finish work so it will look much better than it does now aesthetics wise. It is clean!! HAHA Finish grinds, paint, polish and flashing.) I would think any hand crafted work provided it is of quality should be more. Off the shelf parts I cannot see it adding too much value and again it is subjective to the buyer, but wouldn't you think that if you actually made the parts you would not think they should go for better than off the shelf prices?