Fried Wiring When Trying To Start Bike, Need Damage Assessment

[YL82]

Information:

Pamco
Ultimate High Output Coil
NGK Iridium Spark Plugs (#4055, Bpr7Eix)
Yuasa YTX14AHL-BS Battery

I recently rebuilt/re-jetted my BS38 carbs, adjusted cam chain tensioner, adjusted valve clearances, set timing and synchronized the carbs. All was well....

When using the electric start, the bike would either start immediately OR it would go Rrrr rrrr rrrrr and then nothing (while I was holding down the Start Button). When it would it do the latter, I first noticed smoke, then red-hot wiring and then toasted wires & insulation.

Fried wiring. Damnit!!

See pics.

1) What are some possible causes of this wiring melt-down?

I notice that Mikesxs description of this Coil indicates not to leave the ignition on w/o the bike running. When I tried to start the bike & nothing happened, then the wires heated up, I only had the ignition on for a matter of seconds - did NOT leave it on for any extended periods.

I have to wonder about faulty wiring, damaged insulation, etc... I notice that alot of my wiring connectors are brown (as opposed to clear) looking looking like they've gotten too hot.

2) In light of the damage, am I looking at replacement of the main wiring harness? Any chance of successful repair at affected areas? I see that Mikesxs carries a harness for my XS650C for $90. Comments on Mikesxs wiring harnesses?

I have to wonder whether this could/will occur again (even with new wiring) if the root cause is not determined....

I am not electrically-inclined and have no appetite for installing a new harness (unless a littlebill31-quality step-by-step video tutorial is available.. I'll more than likely have a Shop do this wiring job for me. Cha-ching.

3) Is there a way to Check the functionality of my Pamco and Coil to see if they're OK?

4) If I had started the Bike via the Kick-Starter (and NOT electric start), might this NOT have happened, since using the Start Button seemed to be the thing that started the Wiring BBQ?

Lots of questions, I know....

After all of the mechanical and limited ignition system work (i.e., Pamco & related) I've done over the past several months, I am pretty discouraged right now...

 

[Reid]

I would start by looking at the starter soleniod make sure the coil wire is not touching a ground (frame, ground wire, etc.). It most likely will be related to start button wire since thats what you were doing when it happened. If its not grounded then the soleniod could be bad (never heard of one frying a harness) and pulling a high load (amps = heat). I would replace the harness and the soleniod if it were me, also check the handle bar switches for damage.

 

[YL82]

Comment you NEVER want to hear back in this or ANY Forum: "Never heard of [that ever happening before]....".

Thanks, Reid. I'll check those things out.

I'm in Tri-Cities, TN if you want to come over & help me out.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Yes, any circuit on these bikes can have a "short circuit". Some po's have done bad things such as installing very high wattage headlights................that can cause wires to heat up. Yamaha only used 18 or 19 gauge wire on some circuits, which are barely adequite.

Unfortunately, your bike only has one fuse. The newer bikes with 4 fuses may have prevented the meltdown. Does the one fuse have the correct size fuse?

As part of the post mortem, you could carefully remove the electrical tape on the burned harness area and try to see which wire(s) are burnt the worst. The colour code of the offending wires would give a clue as to which circuit caused the short.

 

[YL82]

I'll have to get back to you on the fuse question, but when I removed my battery, I did remove one fuse that the PO had put on there. I'm pretty sure I've got another fuse on the bike (will check on that), but does this one (see image) belong on there? Not sure what the fuse size is.

So, I'm sure I need to replace main wiring harness and starter solenoid.

What about the Starter itself? Is the Starter or Amature parts that are replaced or just Serviced (per Specs) per Clymer & Haynes manuals?

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[gggGary]

Your last picture appears to show a very nice battery tender circuit with fuse. Should not have been related. If it makes you feel any better it's not the first time I have seen a melted harness in that area, XS650 and others. I can be one cheap SOB but I would probably dissect it and if it's not too bad repair the harness. Full harness replacement isn't really a wiring thing it's just unplug and plug back in, it only goes back in one way as far as plugging connectors in. Make sure if you go the Mikes route you get the correct year, there are several. Take before pictures so you route the wires back where they should be. Yamaha thoughtfully used some stake type connectors in the harness in that area and that spot can take some serious abuse when people try to wrestle the carbs in and out. Not quite sure what the rrrr rr sound meant. was the starter spinning slowly, was it grinding, like loose gear noises, other?

 

[YL82]

Noise = Starter spinning slowly....

So that battery tender circuit doesn't belong on there? I'll remove it.

With your wiring harness comments, you've inspired me to take task that on myself. take pics? Damn straight!

 

[YL82]

I would start by looking at the starter soleniod make sure the coil wire is not touching a ground (frame, ground wire, etc.). It most likely will be related to start button wire since thats what you were doing when it happened. If its not grounded then the soleniod could be bad (never heard of one frying a harness) and pulling a high load (amps = heat). I would replace the harness and the soleniod if it were me, also check the handle bar switches for damage.

Reid, For clarification: When you mentioned to make sure that the "coil wire is not touching a ground" - are you referring to the wiring on my Ultimate High Output Coil or are you talking about a coil wire back at the Starter Solenoid? No doubt a dumb question, but I'm on a steep learning curve with this electrical stuff. I'll get there....

Thanks.

 

[gggGary]

I'd leave the battery tender set up on the bike they are handy and encourage keeping the battery charged up.

high load from a starter spinning slowly shouldn't bother the harness but a short in the harness may have caused the starter to spin slowly. A properly sized fuse should have blown first. But again I have seen harnesses fry even with fuses. Go for a harness repair what have you got to loose? I redid a KZ1300 harness looked like that and it worked fine forever after.

 

[YL82]

I'm going to replace that damn main wiring harness, myself! Great learning oppportunity there and good reason to stay in the garage for long periods!

I was looking on ebay and found lots of used starter solenoids ("Starter Switch Assemblies") most used, but saw a new one for $100.00 or so. Also found a new OEM armature starter for $178, though I don't know for sure that I even need one. I assume that my starter motor can be serviced, but not sure who can do that for me locally.

As to my question about the condition of my Pamco, I only had to look back on a thread I started regarding white smoke June of 2011. I had seen the problem then, but had misdiagnosed it for a carb/fuel problem and not electrical... At any rate, Pamcopete had sent me the following, which I can try, but obvioulsly I'll need to install a new Harness first....

1. Disconnect the PAMCO and coil from the bikes wiring.
2. Connect the PAMCO and the coil to an external battery.
3. Do not turn on anything on the bike.
4. With power to the coil and the PAMCO from the external battery, kick start the engine.

If the engine fires up, then you have eliminated about 1 of the 30 problems you are juggling and can then proceed methodically to solve the other 29.

BTW, I noticed that Mikesxs sells a Starter Block-Off Kit for $16.50. Sounds like a way to circumvent the whole damn Starter issue and use kick-starter only. Not sure I want to go that route just yet, but that appears to be an option...

First things first, I have to complete my autopsy on the harness carcass and get a new one ordered....

 

[retiredgentleman]

I'm going to replace that damn main wiring harness, myself! Great learning oppportunity there and good reason to stay in the garage for long periods!

I was looking on ebay and found lots of used starter solenoids ("Starter Switch Assemblies") most used, but saw a new one for $100.00 or so. Also found a new OEM armature starter for $178, though I don't know for sure that I even need one. I assume that my starter motor can be serviced, but not sure who can do that for me locally.

As to my question about the condition of my Pamco, I only had to look back on a thread I started regarding white smoke June of 2011. I had seen the problem then, but had misdiagnosed it for a carb/fuel problem and not electrical... At any rate, Pamcopete had sent me the following, which I can try, but obvioulsly I'll need to install a new Harness first....

1. Disconnect the PAMCO and coil from the bikes wiring.
2. Connect the PAMCO and the coil to an external battery.
3. Do not turn on anything on the bike.
4. With power to the coil and the PAMCO from the external battery, kick start the engine.

If the engine fires up, then you have eliminated about 1 of the 30 problems you are juggling and can then proceed methodically to solve the other 29.

BTW, I noticed that Mikesxs sells a Starter Block-Off Kit for $16.50. Sounds like a way to circumvent the whole damn Starter issue and use kick-starter only. Not sure I want to go that route just yet, but that appears to be an option...

First things first, I have to complete my autopsy on the harness carcass and get a new one ordered....

Don't assume your starter motor is defective. The Hitachi electrical parts on these bikes were built to a high standard.

I was doing a top end re-build on my bike a few years back, and thought I should have a peek at the starter motor while the engine was out of the frame. I took it apart and found it was in very good condition. The brushes did not need replacement. All I did was to polish up the commutator segments.

If the oil is drained, remove the starter motor and test run it using a battery and jumper cables. The Haynes manual and the Yamaha service manual cover the topic with pictures as well.

Its best to learn yourself to do the maintenance work on these bikes. It could get very expensive to pay a shop to do work on your bike.

 

[YL82]

Very good points!

Noone else has touched my bike yet and I'd like to keep it that way if at all possible.

This great Forum has taught me a trememdous amount in the past year or so....

If/when I pull my Starter Motor and decide to test it, I'll give you a "shout" first to make sure I'm hooking it up (+ and negative) correctly, retiredgentleman. Thanks, kindly.

 

[Reid]

Reid, For clarification: When you mentioned to make sure that the "coil wire is not touching a ground" - are you referring to the wiring on my Ultimate High Output Coil or are you talking about a coil wire back at the Starter Solenoid? No doubt a dumb question, but I'm on a steep learning curve with this electrical stuff. I'll get there....

Thanks.

Sorry being a mechanic by profession (far from professional)I tend to just use salty mechanic speak. Your starting system uses a high current (big wire) and low current (small wire) the big wire goes from the battery to the starter with the soleniod in the along the way that only allow current flow when the small wire has power on it (pushing the start button). The starter soleniod is basiclly a power switch but instead of having a lever on it like a toggle switch it uses a coil (electromagnet) to make contact inside when power is applied to the small terminal.

 

[YL82]

As far as the Starter Solenoid, I read in one of the manuals that it could not be repaired or serviced, but replaced if bad.

Once removed from the bike, can the solenoid be tested to determine whether its functional?

 

[Reid]

The simplest way that I can think of would be to get your battery and two small pieces of wire both stripped back an inch or two on both ends. If your solenoid had 2 small posts and 2 large posts attach one end of one wire to the positive battery post and one end of the other to the the negitive post. Now hold the wire connected to the neg to one of the small posts on your soleniod, and take the one connected to the positive and tap it on the other small post. If its good you should hear it click and feel it in your hand. Just take it off of the bike and disconnect everything from it first

 

[YL82]

Reid,

I've removed solenoid from my bike. Also have the Starter off - a automotive shop at my workplace says the starter is operational, but needs cleaning. Today, I looked at Start switch on handlebar. Looks pretty crapped up, so will replace it. Mikesxs sells a Bar Switch Assembly that I think I'll purchase.

As far as the solenoid, take a look at the image with labels. At the risk of appearing dense about this, can you tell me how to hook the battery up to it? You sent me instructions, but they were unclear to me.

By the way, might I need to replace my Starter Relay or could this be related in any way to my electrical problems? Is this Relay located in front of my Coil near the Horn?

Thanks.

 

[YL82]

Yes, any circuit on these bikes can have a "short circuit". Some po's have done bad things such as installing very high wattage headlights................that can cause wires to heat up. Yamaha only used 18 or 19 gauge wire on some circuits, which are barely adequite.

Unfortunately, your bike only has one fuse. The newer bikes with 4 fuses may have prevented the meltdown. Does the one fuse have the correct size fuse?

As part of the post mortem, you could carefully remove the electrical tape on the burned harness area and try to see which wire(s) are burnt the worst. The colour code of the offending wires would give a clue as to which circuit caused the short.

As far as the fuse, I found an UNaffected 20A fuse. I believe it should be a 15A.

In the image, is this my one (main) fuse? It's connected to the NEG (WRONG!, Actually POSITIVE!) lead that goes to my battery (also runs to starter solenoid) and also to that red wire which goes up front.

Thanks for helping me ID stuff!

 

[Reid]

Reid,

I've removed solenoid from my bike. Also have the Starter off - a automotive shop at my workplace says the starter is operational, but needs cleaning. Today, I looked at Start switch on handlebar. Looks pretty crapped up, so will replace it. Mikesxs sells a Bar Switch Assembly that I think I'll purchase.

As far as the solenoid, take a look at the image with labels. At the risk of appearing dense about this, can you tell me how to hook the battery up to it? You sent me instructions, but they were unclear to me.

By the way, might I need to replace my Starter Relay or could this be related in any way to my electrical problems? Is this Relay located in front of my Coil near the Horn?

Thanks.

Connect the big wires to A1 and A2 doesnt matter which way so long as they reach, B1 and B2 will only connect one way

 

[Reid]

also check around the relay for any naked wires touching. At this point you may need to invest in a multimeter so you can check for continuity (connection) to ground on the wires from the start button to the relay to the solenoid.

 

[YL82]

Reid,

I just re-read my earlier post (in reference to labeled image) and noticed how poorly I had worded my question to you. My apologies.

In order to Bench Test the Solenoid using my 12V battery, how to I hook it up to check functionality of the solenoid switch? I'm not sure how to hook up the battery to the solenoid in order to test it (off of bike).

I assume that one can also bench test both the solenoid and starter motor connected together using a battery, jumper cables, etc. I just don't know how to hook up everything.

Sorry to beat this thing to death!

I do have a nice Greenlee Digital Multi-Meter...now do I know how to use it to its fullest extent? Questionable...