gear selection problem

[Jimbo W]

I took my 1980 out today, it was ok last week but suddenly, with no warning, I seem to have lost 4th gear when I try to change up - just get false neutral, toe the lever up again & I get 5th, prod it back down & 4th is there but only on downshift. Occasional jumps out of gear elsewhere in the box too. What might have happened please you gurus? Funny because the clutch lever felt heavier than usual as soon as I jumped on the bike this morning.

 

[gggGary]

Broken spring or disc coming off linkage in shift mech behind clutch is popular. Heavy clutch prolly just cold oil/grease.
this pic shows three possible culprits, search shift spring for lots of threads splaining it.

 

[Jimbo W]

Many thanks for quick response Gary, found an old thread that sounds exactly the same prob.
Having a few probs with the old girl recently - due to sudden increase in use I think (500 miles on Piston Rally in Spain in Sept). Something else that happened, that I just found a thread for, is that a couple of times the bike wouldn't roll back. Clutch adjustment took the rap for that. Surprising as I've been having no trouble finding neutral with engine running. Have tried to loosen the clutch locknut behind the round cover without success.
Seems like another visit to my mechanic may be needed but I'll prob have a go at removing r.h. cover to look for obvious issues 1st.

 

[5twins]

Here's a better pic of what you'll be looking at. The clutch may need to be removed to easily access all this stuff. The larger spring at the top is the usual culprit but the round disc below it that it pulls against the shift drum can fall off too .....

The worm, worm adjuster screw, and it's lock nut are all just plain steel and can rust together. Once you do get it loose, pull the screw out and liberally anti-seize it. And when installing the lock nut, it doesn't need to be super tight, just a little bit past snug. If you don't have one, get a 12mm offset box wrench. It works well for accessing the worm lock nut .....

 

[Rasputin]

Many thanks for quick response Gary, found an old thread that sounds exactly the same prob.
Having a few probs with the old girl recently - due to sudden increase in use I think (500 miles on Piston Rally in Spain in Sept). Something else that happened, that I just found a thread for, is that a couple of times the bike wouldn't roll back. Clutch adjustment took the rap for that. Surprising as I've been having no trouble finding neutral with engine running. Have tried to loosen the clutch locknut behind the round cover without success.
Seems like another visit to my mechanic may be needed but I'll prob have a go at removing r.h. cover to look for obvious issues 1st.

I wondered why I didn’t see any XS on the Spanish Rally I attended. You were on the MC Piston Rally in Santander. I went on the North of Spain and Colombre Rally. Oh well, maybe next year.

 

[Jimbo W]

Yep, that's the one we did. Based in Potes with hq in Santander. There was one nice looking roadster - with charging probs + my Special.

 

[Rasputin]

I had much the same problem on my TX750. It turned out to be the top roller detent spring broken. I replaced it with a spring I had laying around, made it near impossible to select neutral, obviously too strong a spring. I bought one from Yambits, back to normal. Penywise Pound foolish, I believe is the saying.

 

[Jimbo W]

Finally got the r/h cover off today with help from a competant friend. The top spring was indeed broken so ordered one + a gasket from Yambits. Looked in my assorted springs tin & found an identical looking one (13 coils). Fitted it & seems to work perfectly but will wait for the new one before I button everything up. Didn't find the broken piece in the oil so will drop the sump filter & hope it's stuck to the magnet.
Also fitted a new clutch cable & I now understand how to adjust it properly so no more "not rolling back" issues I hope. Fitted new x ring chain & sprockets too. 530 chains are hefty old things, does anyone use 520 conversions?

 

[grizld1]

I've used 520 Enumi (EK) x-ring chain on my D model for years. Any modern sealed 520 chain is a good deal stronger than the OE 530.

 

[fredintoon]

- - - Fitted new x ring chain & sprockets too. 530 chains are hefty old things, does anyone use 520 conversions?

Hi Jimbo,

Sure 520 works OK, see grizld1's post.​

I thought about swapping to 520 at my bike's last chain & sprockets replacement.
But I reckoned that the 520's slightly lower cost is just about balanced by it's slightly less longevity.
As to the weight saving, comparing a few ounces saved vs a bike that left the factory 50lbs overweight
and what my bathroom scale tells me, why bother?

 

[grizld1]

Weight reduction is a cumulative process, Fred; cutting a little here and a little there can make a big difference. My D tips the scales a bit more than 50 lbs. lighter than it left the factory, with no radical surgery. Another factor: reducing unsprung weight has the greatest impact on handling (though as much as I've slowed down with age, that doesn't make much difference to me now). As to durability, a good 520 chain will outlast a mediocre 530 by quite a lot. As with all modifications, what's worthwhile and what isn't depends on the goal.

 

[XSLeo]

On your clutch adjuster in the side cover. I often find them way too tight. You need a socket that has thin walls so as you turn it, it can go into the worm a bit. Just keep turning. Best to do this with it on the bike. Could be from some ham fisted PO or just stuck a bit from setting.
A good penetrating fluid generously applied helps. Not heat it can damage the nylon part in the worm.
About the best penetrating fluid out there is ATF and acetone mixed 50 50. I don't have a link to the test report but it was way ahead of most everything commercially available.
PB Blaster was about the best store bought.
Hose it down, let it set then try it. Repeat as needed.
Leo

 

[Jimbo W]

Managed to loosen the clutch adjuster without too much trouble. 1st time it's been touched in my 14 years of ownership!
Re weight reduction - as a cyclist I'm into removing any non-essential bulk from my machines but got the 530 chain set on now (looks good in gold) & will struggle to wear it out. 1st replacement in my ownership, think I've done about 6000 miles in that time.
One bit of unsprung weight I did lose was 6 ounces via an XS1100 slotted front disc. Looks great but now the brake pulses annoyingly when coming to a stop. Disc isn't warped so I reckon it must be the pads going over the slots. Pity.
!

 

[fredintoon]

Weight reduction is a cumulative process, Fred; cutting a little here and a little there can make a big difference. My D tips the scales a bit more than 50 lbs. lighter than it left the factory, with no radical surgery. Another factor: reducing unsprung weight has the greatest impact on handling (though as much as I've slowed down with age, that doesn't make much difference to me now). As to durability, a good 520 chain will outlast a mediocre 530 by quite a lot. As with all modifications, what's worthwhile and what isn't depends on the goal.

Hi grizld1,
I reckon it'd take "heroic measures" to make an XS650 50lbs lighter.
Swap out tank & fenders for plastic ones off a dirt bike, dual seat for a solo seat, exhaust for a single wall 2 into 1, dump the centerstand & pillion pegs,
swap in an XS11 slotted disk (& WTF Jimbo, my XS11 fronts don't vibrate?) sure, it's doable but you gotta work at it.
And a 530 chain will outlast a 520 chain so long as they are of equal quality and given the same level of care.

 

[grizld1]

Heroic measures? I guess that's a matter of perspective. Mods would have been quite a chore to do all at once, but I pecked at things over the course of many seasons. Plastic front fender and chain guard, Works Performance custom alloy body shocks, Brembo full floating rotor, center stand removal, aftermarket full length seat with plastic pan (labeled "XS650" but no manufacturer's marks), single wall 2-2 pipes with 17" megaphone muffs, custom duraluminum wheel bearing spacers, aftermarket alloy tail light, removal of inessential electrical gimcracks and associated wires, replacement of mechanical gauges and associated dash with Acewell tach/speedo unit, 520 chain and sprockets, lightweight Raask rearsets, and titanium fasteners on brake rotor and caliper, rear sprocket, chain adjusters, and swingarm blocks. The seat is a mystery. I bought it NOS from a local indie shop, and those guys had acquired it when another shop sold off its inventory, so they had no idea where it came from. The foam is very high quality, much more comfortable than the original.

 

[Jimbo W]

well, I've removed a few bits off the bike but at 145 lbs I've saved a fair amount on the pilot compared to many!