Help!!! Charging system is pissing me off!!!

[pamcopete]

How does running in 1st gear make any more difference than any other gear at under 2000 rpm's? Let's say your riding down a flat road, no traffic, no wind, just a steady speed, at 1500 rpm's, the bike isn't lugging or struggling to maintain speed because once your at a certain speed it takes very little to maintain it. Unless of course you have brake drag or some other sort of resistance. Why does it matter what gear your in the motor is in? It's still doing 1500 rpm's.

Regardless of what your road speed is, you have to develop the same HP to maintain that speed, regardless of what the engine speed is. This means that you are producing the same horse power for a given road speed at a lower RPM if you are using a higher gear.

The result is more torque on the crank shaft bearings, rod bearings and wrist pins then you would have if you ran the engine faster in a lower gear for the same road speed.

Also, the heat from the combustion process stays in the cylinder longer without the benefit of a cooling fresh flow of cooler mixture from the carbs. The result is a hotter running engine and especially hotter exhaust valves.

 

[xstwin]

I do have to agree with pamco with the torque factor he"s got ya there.But the PMA is still better than stock

 

[maxx40x]

First off I would like to say I'm new here. So hi!!! Here's a short story. I bought a 81 xs650 April 2009 in pieces. 6 weeks later I had it chopped dropped and rolling down the road. It was great! Then 3 weeks went by and the problems started. Overcharging, undercharging, it couldn't make up it's mind what it wanted to do. I tryed the radio shack and auto parts voltage regulator rectifier combo. That worked for a while, then quit also. I need some help I think my wiring is a little off. I've seen a few different examples each 1 is a little different from the next so what is right for me? I'm pretty smart and I think I know what I'm doing. I'm usually very good with wiring but I even brought it to a local electric repair shop that rebuilds alternators and starters and anything else with automotive and electrical and we couldn't figure it out. So besides giving up and buying 600 bucks in new parts my only other option is to ask for more help. Because I have a feeling I would buy the parts and still have the same problem. Any advice you could give would help. Thanks so much

I can't stand it anymore;
The questions you have to ask yourself, and answer yourself are vary simple.
1> are you going to keep the bike and ride it?
2>Are you going for a 100 point restoration?
If you're going to keep the bike, and wanna ride it with little or no fear of failing (ignition/charging) while you're 1000 miles from home, do your self a BIG FAVOR, and buy a MZ-B ignition. Then you can throw everything that's stuck on the ends of the cam and crank in the trash (or sell the parts) apparently there are those that really like the stock XS charging/ ignition system. In any event, do your self a favor and buy a charging/ ignition system that once set up, you don't have to worry about, has a guarantee, and is with out question one of the best ignitions/charging systems available.
If your going for that 100 point restoration, do the next owner a favor and buy a MZ-B ignition/charging system.
No. I am in no way affiliated with MZ-B. I have one of there units on one of my play bikes, and for the street you will be hard pressed to find a better unit. I do not baby my XSs, I take care of them; I build, buy and run, the best parts I can find, and they do all I ask of them. That includes the ignition/charging systems.
Its you money, it's your time, it's your ride. Be good to each other.

 

[maxx40x]

WOW I don't know where to begin here???? First Gordan say's "the charging system's on these bike's is a weak area"(direct quote). Then Pete chimes in,and then Gordan says this "Pete is correct in saying that there is nothing wrong with these system's(another direct quote). Are u kidding me. Then retired gentlemen assumes I don't pay attention to my bikes and in a condescending tone gives me the punch list on how to service my electrical system. Says he sick of hearing the same old story of how the xs is a weak charging system bbbuuutttttt wait!!!!!!!! there's more. How many posts have you been involved with over at 650 rider discussing ways to cut power consumption because of the weak charging system?? not to mention opening up the left side engine case so the rotor doesn't burn up thats reliability??. And I also remember u defending points saying we where stupid to spend money on a pamco or boyer only to find that next month u had bought one and now there great. The reason I don't like the stock charging system is because I have perhaps been unlucky with rotors and for a little more than a rotor I could have a system that puts out more than the stock system,I can start my bike with a dead battery,I don't need a battery to run it,there are no brushes,less wiring,numerous inexpensive replacement parts available if need be.I don't know why anyone would want the stock system over a PMA? just the fact that you can start your bike with a dead battery should be enough of a selling point. And for you guys to think that your the only ones who service or know how to service your bikes, or when to service your bikes is just plain arrogance. Some people think because they don't have it, no one needs it or it's no good. Then when they get one suddenly it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sorry to you other people but I had to do that,there's a few people around here who think there the kings of xs and that everyone should hang on their every word and do as they say or its wrong or not true.It only confuses the new people who are trying to learn.

 

[81-650chopper]

Maxx40x thanks for your input. I did some looking at that ignition. The specs they give seem a little weird and it says not for charging lights. Is that because it's a race system built for high voltage output not amps. Like how an msd or accel system for a car would be??? Plus my brother and I custom built our bikes doing what we call a limited budget build. And with that we are allowed to spend no more than 1000 bucks on our build. Right now I'm sitting at $780 with a pretty sweet bike. So $519.00 for a new charging system is a little steep for me at this point. I think I'll just try an make this so called good reliable system try to work for more than a week lol ;-)

 

[81-650chopper]

Will a stator off a points motor work on my cdi motor? As long as I swap over the ignition parts and brush mount. I've always been thinking in the back of mind about m stator being a problem. We all know how some electrical parts test fine cold but once warm fail. Maybe I could have an issue with it getting warm and sometimes failing???

 

[maxx40x]

Maxx40x thanks for your input. I did some looking at that ignition. The specs they give seem a little weird and it says not for charging lights. Is that because it's a race system built for high voltage output not amps. Like how an msd or accel system for a car would be??? Plus my brother and I custom built our bikes doing what we call a limited budget build. And with that we are allowed to spend no more than 1000 bucks on our build. Right now I'm sitting at $780 with a pretty sweet bike. So $519.00 for a new charging system is a little steep for me at this point. I think I'll just try an make this so called good reliable system try to work for more than a week lol ;-)

They (MZ-B) make a race only and a unit for the street. The street unit is a few bucks more. If money is the limiting factor why not go with the infamous RD/RZ permanent magnet swaps. Seams to work for everyone that needs a cost effective ignition/charging system. I'm told those stator/rotor combo are all over eBay.

 

[81-650chopper]

That mzb system is certainly some thing to look forward to for the future. As far as the RD setup I'm not sure. Everybody talks about the difference in the systems by throwing fancy numbers and specs out there. I know what I'm doing but all that technical talk just gets me lost. One guy says it does this. The next guy says yeah but also think about this. Then somebody else has something good or bad to say about it. I don't know what to listen to and after a while you just get confused! But one thing I do understand is all the stats I've been given about the stock system shows me it won't work to my expectations. So I do know is it needs to be changed! To what? I have no idea. Maybe I should jump on the band wagon and design my own system. Who knows??????

 

[Sundie]

In a PM alternator regulator, the regulator shunts the excess current to ground to maintain the set voltage, so as the alternator produces more current with higher RPM's, more of the current is simply converted to heat. It's not regulated. It's wasted.

Right, that was my point. The regulator in a PM limits current, not voltage. And yeah, wasted. In a brushed system, no more voltage is produced than current demands. IMHO, better.

 

[Sundie]

Will a stator off a points motor work on my cdi motor? As long as I swap over the ignition parts and brush mount. I've always been thinking in the back of mind about m stator being a problem. We all know how some electrical parts test fine cold but once warm fail. Maybe I could have an issue with it getting warm and sometimes failing???

No, it won't work. The newer TCI rotors work on older bikes, but not the other way around. The old rotors don't have the magnet for the pickup.

If you have 5ohms between the slip rings, it's fine.

Edit: i got one rebuilt for $120. So not crazy money.

 

[Sundie]

One guy says it does this. The next guy says yeah but also think about this. Then somebody else has something good or bad to say about it. I don't know what to listen to and after a while you just get confused!

Well, you *did* say any input was appreciated. You can't complain there.

But one thing I do understand is all the stats I've been given about the stock system shows me it won't work to my expectations. So I do know is it needs to be changed! To what? I have no idea. Maybe I should jump on the band wagon and design my own system. Who knows??????

Okay, but you're working from the following: must have full output at 1200rpm. Without some sort of gearing, that's not going to work. Even the PM's aren't going to have full output at 1200. On the other hand, when your battery inevitably dies, you'll still be able to start your bike.

 

[650Skull]

From charging system to this,I think cabin fever has melted everyone's brain. You guys keep on lugging I"m gonna go build an engine for my latest project and 81-chop just get a PMA setup and you"ll be fine,if u want pm me with any questions about one please do or go to the 650 garage there"s a bunch of stuff on pma"s over there.

Your forgetting the Vault, has links to the Garage 2 and 650 Club of Australia. a good comprehensive guide........ Maneto Swap

 

[xstwin]

cool thank you skull I didn't know things had been transferred over is it called the vault??????

 

[650Skull]

Still on the old 650 rider site in the vault, your thread on the tank is in there if yoiu wish to transfer over or link it to a new thread, be good to see the finished product

 

[yamaman]

No, it won't work. The newer TCI rotors work on older bikes, but not the other way around. The old rotors don't have the magnet for the pickup.

A rotor is the round spinny thing, and to run TCI it must have the magnet embedded in it. A stator, as the name sugests is stationary! The rotor spins around inside it.

I know of no reason for an older type stator not to work on a TCI bike. Depending on what year, you may have issues with the grounded (or ungrounded brush)

 

[inxs]

- you would need to drill and tap the old stator for the pickup

 

[650Skull]

Not if you were installing a pamco

 

[inxs]

A rotor is the round spinny thing, and to run TCI it must have the magnet embedded in it. A stator, as the name sugests is stationary! The rotor spins around inside it.

I know of no reason for an older type stator not to work on a TCI bike. Depending on what year, you may have issues with the grounded (or ungrounded brush)

- by TCI i assume yamaman is talking about original XS TCI ignition

 

[yamaman]

Once again inxs, your bang on the money!

This is a pretty funny thread...............

 

[81-650chopper]

Yeah I figured I just needed to tap some holes for the pickup for the ignition the mounts on the stator. I not sure what the rotor had anything to do with my question there Sundie. I can clearly see the rotor won't work because it does not have the magnetic tabs for the tci. I was just wondering if there was some stupid reason why it wouldn't work. One otherthing I'm wondering is.... Why if everybody is claiming this charging system is so good and reliable why does most everybody defending it upgrade to different or better parts or why they are putting in led tail lights or a relay that shuts off the headlight when in neutral? Kinda sounds like your trying to avoid an innevitable problem lol ;-) I agree this thread is hilarious.