Hopefully starting a full restoration, 78 SE

[TheRepairMan]

Hi guys! Excuse my first post here, but I'm not really new... I've been riding bikes since 1969. So now, I'm contemplating doing a full restoration on my very special, (bought it new) 78 Special very soon, and would like to learn all I can about keeping it completely showroom stock... just because they are hard to find that way... and, the bike has about 29,172 actual miles on the clock. I'm sure it needs lots of attention, but I'm not trying to make an everyday rider out of it. I have a much newer Yamaha for that.

I'm just wanting to get it to a point where I'd be proud to show it during the local car and bike events here. You know, cleaned up and running, but I "may" even leave some of the "patina" on it rather than try to make it into a new bike. The only original part, or parts I don't have is the exhaust system. It was rusted through so I replaced it with aftermarket stuff about 20 years ago. Other than that, the bike has been basically just sitting inside over the last 22 years. I've been busy raising a family, and making a living and stuff, but I have managed to collect a few spare parts over the years.

I've begun to read about this process, but not sure where to begin ...I guess with a full assessment of what I'm going to have to have (besides lots of money), but then what???

Oh, and there will be pictures! (Here they are... http://www.xs650.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144743&postcount=12)

Thanks ahead,
Roger

1978 XS650 SE
2006 FZ1

 

[retiredgentleman]

Welcome to the site.

Original owners of these bikes is somewhat rare, so good to have you aboard. I have a 78SE and find it easy to work on and a real treat to ride. By 78 Yamaha had most of the improvements developed but had not started all the goofy interlocks as on the later models.

If you want to keep with originality then you may want to stay with the points ignition, OEM rectifier and regulator etc. For myself I wanted to increase reliability so I can ride it on long trips. I use the Pamco ignition/Accel coil, modern bridge rectifiers, solid state automotive regulator. The original fuse holder panel is worn out from all the years, so automotive blade type fuse holders are the way to go.

"Tech" section has loads of info..............also the "Search" function will find good stuff for you.

 

[TheRepairMan]

Welcome to the site.

Original owners of these bikes is somewhat rare, so good to have you aboard. I have a 78SE and find it easy to work on and a real treat to ride. By 78 Yamaha had most of the improvements developed but had not started all the goofy interlocks as on the later models.

If you want to keep with originality then you may want to stay with the points ignition, OEM rectifier and regulator etc. For myself I wanted to increase reliability so I can ride it on long trips. I use the Pamco ignition/Accel coil, modern bridge rectifiers, solid state automotive regulator. The original fuse holder panel is worn out from all the years, so automotive blade type fuse holders are the way to go.

"Tech" section has loads of info..............also the "Search" function will find good stuff for you.

Thanks! I get doing all the mods, chopping, bobbing, flat tracker and all that, and the 650 has huge potential there, and keeping my bike as original as possible isn't the "popular" thing to do, but being that I was only 22 years old when I rolled this thing off the dealer showroom floor, I'd just love it to become a reflection of those past memories. The bike will always be worth more to me than anyone else just for sentimental reasons. It's going to be pretty cool... but it also has to run! I just have to be able to do some short rides with her to make the restoration worth my while, so I will be doing a LOT of searching here for tips.

I've got a plan. I'm starting with dropping the oil pan and strainers to see what kind of monsters might be hiding there. This could be scary, because the bike never has been messed with much... just oil changes, batteries, tires, and a chain or two. If all goes well there I'll move on to the tank and carbs. That too, may be a fright. I'm not sure what I'll find, but it has been neglected for too long. All I know right now is that the engine is still free, and it makes compression. That gives me something to start with.

Oh, and I just now found out about XSjohn's passing. I remember him from years ago. This is very sad. He was a great contributor toward the continued success of the 650.

-R

 

[CDNTX650]

Atleast you know the previous owner.

Thats why i cleaned up my 74 to almost stock (sans a few parts that were to damaged so they got replaced with similar aftermarket stuff), not perfect by any means, but a nice clean fun to ride bike. All it really needs is a pamco. But with my own home built wiring harness/flate blade fuse panel and solid state regulator, it runs/drives really well with the single breaker point dual output coil setup. Next thing is a new auto advance. Mine is worn and had to be doctored to not retard to much.

Very simple to work on, and very satisfying.

Im only 28 and this bike will stay with me....so will my 75. ha.

 

[TheRepairMan]

Atleast you know the previous owner.

Thats why i cleaned up my 74 to almost stock (sans a few parts that were to damaged so they got replaced with similar aftermarket stuff), not perfect by any means, but a nice clean fun to ride bike. All it really needs is a pamco. But with my own home built wiring harness/flate blade fuse panel and solid state regulator, it runs/drives really well with the single breaker point dual output coil setup. Next thing is a new auto advance. Mine is worn and had to be doctored to not retard to much.

Very simple to work on, and very satisfying.

Im only 28 and this bike will stay with me....so will my 75. ha.

Yeah, the previous owner (me), didn't take real good care of the bike throughout its life. I can remember that the bike seemed to be way down on power the last couple of years I rode it. I had a hard time keeping up with a lot of other riders. It never had any misfiring, but after I went to aftermarket pipes and mufflers it just never ran as good as it did stock. It ran better with the baffles out, but then it's louder than a Harley with straight pipes. So I'll still be after the right combo when I get to that point.

At some point I had added pods and changed main jets and needle settings, but then when at full throttle it had a flat spot in the mid rpm range. I really never did get it right, but with all the info available here it shouldn't be a big problem now, depending on what kind of shape I find the carbs in.

I can remember it backfiring one time and blowing the carbs all the way off of it. That was interesting, but it only happened that once. And now I'm seeing where you are not suppose to take those stock air boxes off because they help support the carbs and battery tray??? I ran my bike a long time without them, and probably don't have them anymore.

-R

 

[I am Carbon]

Hi RM welcome to XS650 here is a good read carb guide to get those carbies right
http://www.amckayltd.com/carbguide.pdf have a good time fixen her up. oilseals are a must after the rip van winkle. and 29,000 maybe a new cam chain with all the goodies might be in order too.

Good luck with the resto,Ed

 

[TheRepairMan]

Hi RM welcome to XS650 here is a good read carb guide to get those carbies right
http://www.amckayltd.com/carbguide.pdf have a good time fixen her up. oilseals are a must after the rip van winkle. and 29,000 maybe a new cam chain with all the goodies might be in order too.

Good luck with the resto,Ed

Thanks, Ed! Yeah, I'm sure the list will be a long one, but I think I'll be able to prioritize and do the services in stages. I already have all just about all the tools I would need and have some very dusty 650 skills, so at this stage I'm just searching, reading, searching reading, reading... researching, I guess you'd call it. I'm finding loads of stuff I didn't know... such as, now diaphragms ARE available for the stock 38mm CV carbs. That's great news to me! Just little stuff gets me excited about this project.

The other nice thing is... when I want to take a break away from working on the XS, I've got my 06 FZ1 ready, paid for, and waiting to be ridden. It's so much fun, but so different from the feel of the 650. Both are unique bikes in their own way.



-R

 

[TheRepairMan]

Oh, and I just remembered... my bike actually ran the last time I tried to start it...

...but, I think that was in 1999. That's just sad. It had sat a few years at that point. Why do we do that?

The interesting thing to me is that I don't recall have any real problems with the bike even well beyond the first decade I rode it. I did have to replace the generator rotor for going open circuit on me, but that was about 1980 not long after the bike's warranty ran out. Other than that, and the mufflers rusting out, it was always trouble free. I'm going to be inspecting and photographing EVERYTHING very carefully this time round.

-R

 

[TheRepairMan]

The doctor's in... and after about a 20 minute exam I can report good news. The engine is still free, and has strong compression... yay! So, day one, I pulled the plugs and shot probably about half an ounce of oil into each cylinder (not really sure when that was done last but it was at least ten years ago). I stuck the plugs back in with anti-seize on the threads, but I'll have to grab a new pair my next trip to town.

Next, I took a look at the dip stick. The oil in the crankcase looks as clean and clear as if I had just changed it, but I still don't, and won't, trust it because any moisture, acids, dirt and sediment would have separated over the years. Fresh oil and servicing both strainers will be the goal on day two.

Just out of curiosity, I popped the left side cover off to find the pods falling off because they are so deteriorated, so I just removed the remains for now, and I hand cranked the engine slowly just to make sure it's still free. I'm very glad to report it turns over just like it did the first day I brought it home from the dealer in 78, and still has very nice, even compression on both cylinders as felt by hand. Mechanically speaking, this thing should run!

The only not so good news is, after I turned it over, I can smell the stench of varnish and dead gas, even though I stored it with both oil and sta-bil in the tank and bowls. There was very little gas left in it because it had a needle and seat leaking, and that's why I had poured some motor oil into the fuel tank to prevent rust from forming in the bottom. Evidently that just wasn't good enough, so I'll have to deal with that during my third day of inspections. Day one of bringing my baby back to life went well and should be considered a success! Mostly because I'm getting closer to knowing what I have to work with.

-Roger

 

[CDNTX650]

if you plan to store it that long, completely drain the carbs and tank, and spray fogging oil in the tank.

your carbs will need to be cleaned well forsure.

 

[TheRepairMan]

if you plan to store it that long, completely drain the carbs and tank, and spray fogging oil in the tank.

your carbs will need to be cleaned well for sure.

Yep, that's for sure! They were part of the reason the bike got parked in the first place.

The thing was... I also hadn't planned on a daughter coming along, and then divorce, moving, getting remarried, changing jobs a few times, moving again and then again, ...you know... life.

I was also building cars and racing some when I unfortunately lost interest in the bike. Nearly sold it, but instead just pushed it into a dark corner and forgot about it. I never intended to "store" it at all, but, like my dad always said,

"Time flies when you're having fun ...and even when you're not."

I'm pretty fired up about my old bike again, and what a wealth of info here from all the knowledgeable owners. It would be hard to find another group anywhere that's any more dedicated to their machines. I'm impressed!

-R

 

[TheRepairMan]

Okay, here come the first pictures taken of my XS in years! What a mess!

It's still buried a little along with all my extra 650 spare parts in the corner behind it. But it is what it is, and that's all I have to work with.

Last valid state inspection sticker was 6/91... almost 22 years, and my daughter just turned 19, so I'd say that's about right. I've been busy with everything except riding.

But the one in the foreground has had most of my attention the past couple of years.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Your bike has a little dust and rust on it, but that will all clean up nicely. You can't keep these 78SE's hidden in the garage................they want to run the open roads

 

[TheRepairMan]

Your bike has a little dust and rust on it, but that will all clean up nicely. You can't keep these 78SE's hidden in the garage................they want to run the open roads

I like hearing that!

-R

 

[XSLeo]

As RG said, a bit of spit and polish and it will be looking good again.
There are many things to look at to get it running at it's best.
Start with the electrics, start at one end working to the other. Clean tigh connections are a must.
Once all that looks good you can start digging a bit deeper. Pull the plugs and spray plenty of PJ Blaster in there. Pull the valve adjuster civers soak all that too.
Drain the oil, clean both the sump and side cover filters, repair the torn sump filter.
Fresh motorcycle specific oil.
New battery, new plugs. I would pull the carbs and tank to clean them.
www.amckayltd.com/carbguide.pfd for the carb cleaning.
While the carbs are off you can check for spark and set the can chain tension, adjust the valves, gap and time the points, Don't mess with the old points, replace with new or a Pamco.
If good spark and the compression is over 125 and within 10% you should be able to get it to start.
Once your carbs are spotless, right float height, Then put them back on. Add fresh high test, at least 91 octane gas. Give a shot. It should start up and run fine.
Leo

 

[TheRepairMan]

All, good points, Leo!
I sort of went through this mode of study back in 2005 after riding a friend's bikes that Summer. I got the itch so badly that I took inventory of everything my XS needed, including all the hours of labor, and ended up, after thinking it all through, buying a new bike instead.

Now that the newness has worn off, and buying another isn't an option, I'm back to square one... passionate to see the 650 run again. It may even be harder to accomplish this time, but it will be worth it all.

I like to say THANKS so much, to all the ingenious contributors of great information posted here on our old Yamaha twins.

-Roger

 

[CDNTX650]

you should see what my 74 looked like when i got it....It was free...and sat outside for about 15 years...All cleaned up now, looks original, but a mish mash of parts, so it aint. But i love it!!

 

[TheRepairMan]

you should see what my 74 looked like when i got it....It was free...and sat outside for about 15 years...All cleaned up now, looks original, but a mish mash of parts, so it aint. But i love it!!

Yeah, I enjoy seeing the before and after pics. The other 650 I got all my spare parts from was a 76 standard that was already a mixture. A preacher gave it to me in exchange for some work I did on his car. It was in really rough shape like it had been parked outside in the weather for two decades, but it only showed about 6,500 miles on the clock, so hopefully I have a decent second motor if I ever need it. Sad to say, but I scrapped the frame and all its parts, but I kept the front end with dual discs, like from an 1100 SE, and the extra SE front wheel with all the brake stuff. Even a second set of carbs, but they too, are very rough.

-R

 

[CDNTX650]

just put xs-1 bars on it. much better.

the motor only had about 10,000kms on it...but i ripped er all open. to much work to list....scratch wired with modern fuses.

here is my 75 i just picked up. The paint is staying....doing a strutted 60's style bob.

 

[TheRepairMan]

If I get mine to a point where I want to ride it more than just to town and back I may change the bars out, but even though the old buck horn bars look and feel sort of funny, they are OE on this bike. I've changed bars on my FZ several times now and if you're not careful that game can go on and on.

Let get the holidays out of the way, and then I can dig out a hole around my bike to crawl into and take a closer look at where to start. I'm into several projects all the time so this is just another that probably won't be finished for a while, but I am anxious to hear it run again!

-R