How can I dial this in and eliminate kick back and hard starts?

[alfredo]

My bike has a little trouble running. It wouldn't start on choke, idle, would race when cold and warm, would be hard to start and would kick back every so often so hard I walk funny and am officially scared of the kickstart.

After assuming most of this was caused by the carbs, that have been sitting in a ziplock bag for over a year since rebuild, I sent them to get rebuilt by another forum member. They have recently come back from getting a fresh rebuild and clean and I just put them on last night.

This weekend I hope to get it dialed in and running good. At least good enough and have it stop eating my ankle with the kick back.

Now, on to the actual questions;

1) I have heard the kickback could be that the cam gear is off a tooth or two. I am pretty sure this was all good and have pictures that look like it all is good, but I am never 100% on anything . Can I take the head off and check with the bike in the frame? I have only done internal work while the engine was in the stand.

2) Could the timing and bad carbs just be the cause of kickback?

3) When I had the bike running before I set the boyer timing to full advance and had the white paint mark on the magnet in the hole. Looked great and I could get it running after a while of tweaking with the carbs. When I put a light on it to check the timing it was from 1/4 to 1/2 of the way back towards the TDC mark. I read almost all the docs and can't find what the RPMs should be to set it and if I should be setting it back to the full advance mark or the TDC mark?? Seems like the marker was so far back when it was close to idle that turning the plate to get it back to the full advance mark would be a huge change. I am used to timing cars and the difference is usually very slight so I am applying similar logic to this, but could be wrong.

4) I know I mentioned it already, but the kick back . . . . damn the kick back. Make it stop!!! Please!!!!! I am almost to the point of rethinking the wiring and setup so I can fit was of those cinder block batteries for the installation of a starter. So, that wasn't really a question, but just wanted to express my fear and loathing of the kick back this baby produces. Funny thing is, my friends and family can kick it for twenty minutes to get it to start . . . . no kick back. I try once and it makes me limp for a week. It knows . . . .

So I guess that's it for now. Just really anxious to get this thing starting and driving reliably. Any help is appreciated guys!

 

[5twins]

Sounds like your timing is off. Find a Brit bike place. They're a lot more familiar with Boyers and setting them. When you check and set the Boyer at full advance, you don't do so while the bike is at idle - you have to have it revving to like 5 or 6 grand.

 

[alfredo]

Got the carbs on. Kicked two threetimes and it fired up with some carb cleaner. Idled really well. Revved good. Let it run for two minutes then turned it off. Let it sit for two minutes and tried to start it again. After about ten to twenty kicks it kicked back really hard. I was turning the choke off an on and twisting the throttle off and on. Didn't start and after that kick back I gave up for the night.

:| disappointing.

 

[5twins]

Sounds like your timing is off. Find a Brit bike place. They're a lot more familiar with Boyers and setting them. When you check and set the Boyer at full advance, you don't do so while the bike is at idle - you have to have it revving to like 5 or 6 grand.

 

[alfredo]

I get the hint, will try and adjust the timing tomorrow.

 

[5twins]

Read poorman9's thread "I've got 99 problems ....". He's going through the same stuff with his Boyer timing.

 

[alfredo]

Going to go check the cam chain alignment right now. Crossing my fingers

 

[Visegrippe]

also, i've noticed that when having difficulty starting, an excess of fuel can cause a kick back.

but yeah, your timing is advanced, retard it somewhat and try from there. keep pulling it back till it starts easy. pull the plugs and kick it to clear the gas from the cylinders everyonce in a while too.

good luck

 

[alfredo]

also, i've noticed that when having difficulty starting, an excess of fuel can cause a kick back.

but yeah, your timing is advanced, retard it somewhat and try from there. keep pulling it back till it starts easy. pull the plugs and kick it to clear the gas from the cylinders everyonce in a while too.

good luck

I have noticed that the kick back seems to happen more frequently when I pull the throttle a lot and take the choke off. Seems to be the one right after the choke goes off.

 

[alfredo]

Just checked the cam position and this is what I found:

Looks good as far as I can tell. Can anyone confirm?

 

[sreimer]

Ignition timing!!!

 

[alfredo]

ignore this

 

[alfredo]

The previous post was an accident

So, after a ton of exploration I found the following problems:

1. Petcock leaks in the off position
2. Gas in the gas tank had separated and turned half into gunk
3. Inline filter was clogged
4. Timing was off about 2-5 degrees

To explain, after tirelessly wondering why the bike wouldn't start . . . even after spraying tons of carb cleaner and verifying that both plugs were getting spark, I decided to do the smart thing. Check and see if I had gas. I knew I filled the tank from my little red can about a day earlier, but wanted to check anyhow. I pulled the gas cap off to notice that the tank was barely below half way. "Where did the gas go" I wondered, well . . . I pulled the lines and noticed that my brand new petcock doesn't really turn off all the way. Letting fuel run down into the carbs 24/7. I have had the POD filters off the whole time so it's just been going to the ground and evaporating. To fix this I bought a little lawn mower gas cut off and ran it inline.

Also, upon inspecting the gas I noticed that half of what was in the gas tank was a different color and looked like hot bacon grease. I poured the contents of the tank into one of my parts trays (aka: hubcap) and noticed all the nasty crap that had been clogging up the carbs.

I washed the tank with the hose, dried it out, pulled the carbs, cleaned the bowls with carb cleaner and then filled the tank with fresh gas and some lucas ethanol stabilizer. Hooked it all back up and sprayed the carbs with some cleaner and they fired up and ran for about ten seconds. I realized it was only burning the carb cleaner and then saw that the fuel filter wasn't allowing gas to go through at all. Took it off and replaced it with an old one I had, fired up in a couple kicks and ran long enough to adjust the timing. Set it to the full advance marker while revving it to 5k RPMs. I let it idle with a fan on it for a while and then shut it down.

Later that day I went to try and kick it again and realized I left the new fuel cut off in the on position !!! Wouldn't start. . .

Haven't been out to kick her over again, but I think as long as I remember to not leave the fuel on. . . . I should be good.

Here is a video of what came out of the tank. Hadn't been in there for more than two weeks. I was never anti-ethanol until I got burned. . . .

 

[angus67]

gross, man. maybe try the marine stabil? its said to stabilize the ethanol.
its the green stuff, not the red.
oh, btw, your pilots clogged.

 

[5twins]

Where did you find red NGK plug caps? I thought they only sold them in Europe.

 

[alfredo]

gross, man. maybe try the marine stabil? its said to stabilize the ethanol.
its the green stuff, not the red.
oh, btw, your pilots clogged.

Carbs = black voodoo to me. Any quick tips on unclogging the pilot?

 

[alfredo]

Where did you find red NGK plug caps? I thought they only sold them in Europe.

Came with the bike when I got it.

 

[alfredo]

Went out this afternoon, pulled the drain plugs off the bowls and then replaced them. Put the choke on, pulled the throttle two quick times . . . . kicked it and it fired right up!

Rode about 20 miles today. Farthest yet. Got the feeling for all the gears, stopping and starting. Really pumped!

 

[shotgunjoe]

You do NOT need to give it any throttle, hot OR cold. 2 or 3 prime kicks with ignition off, turn choke on, turn ignition on, kick it like you means it or she might bite.

When warm, kick it like you mean it, no prime kicks, no choke.

If this doesn't work you set something wrong... carbs or ignition timing.

 

[5twins]

Starting an old bike, any old bike, is an acquired taste. It's different from the new "Push-my-button-I-start-immediately" bikes. You use no throttle until it catches but then you need to roll the throttle into it to keep it going. Like I said, an acquired taste. My buddy has 2 '80 XS's. They seem to start hard in my opinion. He cranks and cranks. Mine goes vroom almost immediately. He doesn't know about rolling the throttle into it. Guess I should tell him, lol.