HT leads

[nb1914]

Hi All,

I have managed to get my xs650 running quite well, but the right pot is running colder than the left and there a intermittent misfire on the right. So i thought i would swap ignition between the right and left to see if it follows the points/coil/ht lead. When i un-screwed the HT leads from the coils i was presented with the below ? is this correct i.e. the HT lead is simply a bare wire connection in the coil. In the coil there is a pin protruding. The coil supplying the right pot seemed to have a very poor opportunity for a pin to wire connection.

 

[grizld1]

Yep, that's how the stock coils connect. Cut back to fresh copper and spread the wires out radially flush with the end of the insulation before you screw the HT lead back into the coil.

 

[nb1914]

thanks, i swapped the coils and leads so that those that were on the left cylinder are now on the right etc, still the right pot isn't firing so basically it stayed with the points, visually the points look ok but i havnt checked the gaps or timing yet. Is it possible for the left points to be set correct in terms of timing when the right points are not ? the right pot is getting fuel as the plug is quite wet with fuel.

 

[5twins]

Yes, that's the stock set-up. Push the wire into the coil as far as possible so the pin sticks into the center of the wire as deep as it will go. Then tighten the threaded cap down on the wire and grommet. The cap will pinch the grommet onto the wire and hold it in. Here's how the prepped wire end looks .....

You should re-do the spark plug cap ends as well. They are subject to more movement and more prone to come loose. They attach in a similar manner except the pin in the cap actually looks like the end of a wood screw. You "screw" the cap onto and into the wire as far as it will go. I coat the ends of the wires with a little dielectric grease before installing them.

 

[5twins]

Yes, timing is set individually for each cylinder so it's possible for it to be off on one.

 

[retiredgentleman]

If you don't know the age of the points, they could be very old...................... just buy new points.

 

[nb1914]

thanks all, i had a visual look at timing. to the eye i can't see a gap at all on the right hand points whereas on the left i can. bit confused with the timing the points begging opening way before the rotor mark hits F but the left cylinder is working fine, i notice the cam lobe is long i.e. it seems like it would open the points for some time. Is the F mark where they should be at their widest or as the manual states the F mark is where they should only just start opening.

 

[5twins]

The "F" mark is where they just start opening, and you won't see that with the naked eye. You'll need a test lamp or meter. But, if the right set of points isn't opening at all, that is most likely your problem. You need to set the gap on them, then most likely set the timing. Changing the gap changes the timing so the points must be gapped first.

 

[nb1914]

ah ok i see, i set the RH points to open where i could visually see it , the RH pot did fire more but lots of backfire and intermittent white smoke. Not sure if the smoke is a build up of fuel where it doesn't spark previously. I will order a new set of points and start from scratch with the timing and see what damage i can do.

 

[nb1914]

i pulled the points out and they are very bad, black pitting on all surfaces. So in summary when i get the new points if read the tech timing basics right is:-
1. Set each point to open at the high spot of the cam and adjust gap
2. Set upper points timing using a multimerter to begin opening at "F"
3. Set lower points timing using multimeter to begin opening at "F"
I still can't figure out the high point of the cam as it seems to be a continuous 180degree

 

[5twins]

The high point of the points cam isn't marked. Yes, the points remain open for quite some time. You'll just sorta have to guess at where the high point is. Watch for the spot you can just see the points open and where you can just see them close. High point would be about midway between that.

Your points being all black could indicate your condensers have gone bad. They are supposed to limit the sparking and burning of your points.

 

[nb1914]

ah i didn't think about the condenser, it has a single condenser wired to both coil inputs from the points

 

[5twins]

It looks like a single condenser but is actually two little separate ones mounted on the same bracket, one for each set of points. Two wires come out of it, one from each end, one from each little condenser unit.

 

[retiredgentleman]

There's really no high "point" on the points cam. "Point" meaning just one particular spot. Its actually a rather large high area, or to be more precise, 267 degrees. Points are closed for the dwell period of 93 degrees and open the rest of the time which is 267 degrees. The points are closed for the 93 degrees of camshaft rotation before the F mark, or closed for the 186 degrees of the crankshaft
rotation before the F mark.

The points cam is not a circle with a bump on it. Its a circle with a 93 degree slice cut out of it.

 

[nb1914]

perfect thank you, thats what i could see on the cam, i guess thats where a dwell meter comes into play. I'm not sure but my old points look like the lobe followers are worn possibly affecting the opening point especially as there would be a ummmm 43.5degs of ramp up to max opening i think ? so the old ones wouldn't start opening within that 43.5 degs after the slice ……….not sure of the maths but is the theory somewhere close.

 

[nb1914]

as a side bearing in mind the facts:
1. fuel wet plug right side
2. white smoke and backfire right side
3. points and timing all over the place

I'm thinking of purchasing a Newtronics electronic ignition from yambits uk, obviously I'm wasting my money if the right side cylinder is shot but I'm edging my bets bearing in mind 1-3 above that ignition is the culprit. looking at the newtronics kit there are only a few parts so the installation looks simple ??. anyone have experience with the yambits uk product as i can't see the exact model in previous posts.