Dustinj
XS650 Member
I have an 83 special. Ordered a Hughes Pma. The ignition looks pretty good. Will the stock ignition stuff work with the Pma? I saw something about the flywheel pickup magnet not being there with the Pma.
-
Enjoy XS650.com? Consider making a donation to help support the site.
XS650.com receives a small share of sales from some links on this page, but direct donations have a much greater impact on keeping this site going.
Hughs Pma?
- Thread starter Dustinj
- Start date
-
- Tags
- electrical
jamaral
XS650 Addict
Correct. They dont work together, you would have to get a new ignition too to use the pma. Pamco, boyer, etc.
Dustinj
XS650 Member
Thank you.
To further clarify, the stock TCI uses a magnet in the rotor that passes a pickup mounted on the stator to sense when to fire.
A PMA replaces the stator and rotor. The PMA has no provision for the magnet or pick up.
If your TCI, pick up, your rotor and stator all work ok, you can sell them to help pay for the new PMA and ignition.
Leo
A PMA replaces the stator and rotor. The PMA has no provision for the magnet or pick up.
If your TCI, pick up, your rotor and stator all work ok, you can sell them to help pay for the new PMA and ignition.
Leo
Chito
XS650 Enthusiast
Ok... so I got stranded the other day on the 81 and was looking at hughes pma... im confused which ignition kit complements hughes kit. Not really making a racer.. just want it to be reliable. Been searching, but didnt see any full kits besides mikes. Anyone know what works best together ?
Your bike left you stranded on the road....................have you considered trying to find out why your bike quit on you? Was the battery discharged? Have you measured the charging voltage at the battery? Could be as simple as brushes worn down to short.
Fndirtygreaser
XS650 Addict
Chito , either boyer or pamco make complete kits to complement a pma.
Chito
XS650 Enthusiast
Retired - Yeah... it's a new battery and went completely dead. Slap test is pretty weak. Headlight doesn't brighten during revs. I've been reading a lot about the diagnostics of it and I imagine I'll get in there and find you're right. I just haven't had garage time. So... just been trying to get the numbers together to figure out my options to see if this time is as good as any to upgrade. Everything I've read seems to indicate this is probably a good mod to do.
I had seen that Pamco had ignition kits that would compliment the Hughes kit, but when I do things like that I always end up missing one little part. It is nice he has all the parts listed.... I can't expect much more than that.
I had seen that Pamco had ignition kits that would compliment the Hughes kit, but when I do things like that I always end up missing one little part. It is nice he has all the parts listed.... I can't expect much more than that.
You are having a very common problem....................weak or no charging.
This is a good thread to read:
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10561
The stock alternator works quite well on these bikes. My bike has the stock alternator and it has worked great for the last 7 years. Brushes wear down slowly and need replacing once every 5 or 6 years. The alt. rotor does often fail after 30+ years. Do some testing as shown in the link and see what you find.
Your stock TCI is a very good ignition.
If you find its just a worn out rotor, then its cost effective to stay with the stock alternator. If you find the rotor and stator are both bad, then going over to the PMA might work out better, but you will spend more money to replace the TCI. TCI can't be used with a PMA.
Chito
XS650 Enthusiast
Thanks. Yeah. I've got 2 copies of that very thread printed off around the house. ... and that is kind of the conclusion I've come to also. I imagine I'll just have to wait to see what I find out, then make a decision.
Liftedzuki
XS650 Addict
I have the tci stuff on eBay. Not sure on condition.
Chito
XS650 Enthusiast
Thanks Lifted... It isn't really about getting it done cheaply. I was just thinking since I'm in there already it may be worth doing it all. Like Retired says though, the original didn't work badly and I'm not one to hop it up for no reason.
I agree with RG on testing what you have. A set of brushes, $20. If the rotor is bad A new one or getting your rewound is around $100-$150.
The stator hardly ever is the problem. A replacement of the reg/rec can be as low as $35 or as high as $100.
You may find the problem is a weak or bad wire connection, Not much cost to fix, could be as easy as cleaning a plug connector or the key switch.
So if it's the usual suspects it might cost less than $200.
A PMA kit runs more than that, then that much again for a new ignition. Maybe $500 for both. Not sure, haven't looked that up lately.
I do use the Pamco ignition and highly recommend it if you do the PMA swap.
I run the stock charging system with a few mods to get it working at it's best, on the 75 and totally stock on the 81. Pamco on the 75, the TCI on the 81. Both run and charge very well.
Leo
The stator hardly ever is the problem. A replacement of the reg/rec can be as low as $35 or as high as $100.
You may find the problem is a weak or bad wire connection, Not much cost to fix, could be as easy as cleaning a plug connector or the key switch.
So if it's the usual suspects it might cost less than $200.
A PMA kit runs more than that, then that much again for a new ignition. Maybe $500 for both. Not sure, haven't looked that up lately.
I do use the Pamco ignition and highly recommend it if you do the PMA swap.
I run the stock charging system with a few mods to get it working at it's best, on the 75 and totally stock on the 81. Pamco on the 75, the TCI on the 81. Both run and charge very well.
Leo
Liftedzuki
XS650 Addict
I just ordered the pma and pamco e advance.. $660. All new stuff.
Chito
XS650 Enthusiast
Thanks lifted. Hope to do some tests this weekend. Any reason you went with the set up you chose over the mikes ?
https://www.mikesxs.net/product/24-2671.html
https://www.mikesxs.net/product/24-2671.html
Last edited:
Chito
XS650 Enthusiast
Since I kinda thread jacked this one already, I thought I"d keep it going.
I've done the diagnostic stuff. 1st off, my rotor was visually bad. There was quite a bit of actual raised rust on the outside (and it measured a 3). The stator also needs to be replaced, as it seems to be grounded. Brushes were kinda short, but still usable... though I'd replace them too.
So... now to decide what to do. Just replace with stock-ish parts or go with a pma kit? What is your guys opinion?
I may like to run a gps at some time. I do mostly country roads and some highways.
I don't see a reason to jump up to 200 watts. I've been reading and the idea of excess heat doesn't thrill me, but at the same time, the post seemed hypothetical and I don't see any actual examples of problems or complaints of excess heat.
It would be nice if there were kits that were stage 1 / stage 2 / stage 3 etc. I'd pick the small bump up... except I guess I would want to justify the ignition switch.
Also... how do you decide which pamco to go with if you choose to go with a pma?
Everyone seems to say the pma's are an upgrade and amazing, but then more than a couple of people have told me that the stock system is very good.
Any opinions would be welcome.
I've done the diagnostic stuff. 1st off, my rotor was visually bad. There was quite a bit of actual raised rust on the outside (and it measured a 3). The stator also needs to be replaced, as it seems to be grounded. Brushes were kinda short, but still usable... though I'd replace them too.
So... now to decide what to do. Just replace with stock-ish parts or go with a pma kit? What is your guys opinion?
I may like to run a gps at some time. I do mostly country roads and some highways.
I don't see a reason to jump up to 200 watts. I've been reading and the idea of excess heat doesn't thrill me, but at the same time, the post seemed hypothetical and I don't see any actual examples of problems or complaints of excess heat.
It would be nice if there were kits that were stage 1 / stage 2 / stage 3 etc. I'd pick the small bump up... except I guess I would want to justify the ignition switch.
Also... how do you decide which pamco to go with if you choose to go with a pma?
Everyone seems to say the pma's are an upgrade and amazing, but then more than a couple of people have told me that the stock system is very good.
Any opinions would be welcome.
tonyc
XS650 Guru
The stock system requires maintenance periodically. If done it is a good system.
Gordon
XS650 Junkie
As has been stated by a few of the 'old timer's' here, the stock system's, ignition and charging, are both very reliable and do not require a lot of maintenence.
In the sticky's, there are specification's to what part should read what. In simpler term's, if you ohm a charging rotor, the spec is 4-5 ohm's. Anything different than that, it's no good. Same with all the component's, regulator/ rectifier assy, TCI box, ect. There is even info on how to rebuild all these part's with inexpensive automotive part's. Same thing applie's to charging spec's. If the book tell's you that 13.4 volt's at 2500 rpm, that is where a good system will be. And the reading's should be steady, not constantly changing. A slow rise in voltage will occur when the battery charge's up to capacity..Now, accessory's like a GPS or USB charging port can be done, but remember, the stock system only put's out a maximum of 16 amp's. If your total load when running is close to or at that amount, you will run into problem's be cause there is not enough amperage to cover all your load's.Just wanted to let you know about that part, as I have seen some, ahem, Harley's with a gazillion lite's on them, dead at the stoplite. Most newer bike's have a 30 amp system, but these older one's only have what was considered consumption at the time of manufacture.
Even the 200 watt PMA system is only 16 amps.,,,so,,,,
In the sticky's, there are specification's to what part should read what. In simpler term's, if you ohm a charging rotor, the spec is 4-5 ohm's. Anything different than that, it's no good. Same with all the component's, regulator/ rectifier assy, TCI box, ect. There is even info on how to rebuild all these part's with inexpensive automotive part's. Same thing applie's to charging spec's. If the book tell's you that 13.4 volt's at 2500 rpm, that is where a good system will be. And the reading's should be steady, not constantly changing. A slow rise in voltage will occur when the battery charge's up to capacity..Now, accessory's like a GPS or USB charging port can be done, but remember, the stock system only put's out a maximum of 16 amp's. If your total load when running is close to or at that amount, you will run into problem's be cause there is not enough amperage to cover all your load's.Just wanted to let you know about that part, as I have seen some, ahem, Harley's with a gazillion lite's on them, dead at the stoplite. Most newer bike's have a 30 amp system, but these older one's only have what was considered consumption at the time of manufacture.
Even the 200 watt PMA system is only 16 amps.,,,so,,,,
From what you have said you have been doing research on both systems. They are both good systems. Is one better than the other, I don't really think so.
Even if both the stock system and a PMA were 200 watt or 16 amps the PMA gives more usable output. The stock charging system uses a field excited coil that draws around 50-60 watts to excite the alternator. The PMA doesn't. so the PMA has more available to use for other things.
I haven't priced out the components to replace both the stock stator and rotor lately. The last time I looked around it came close to the price of a PMA.
You might find good used parts from someone who swapped his stock parts for a PMA. Might be worth checking around. Stators seldom go bad, the usual culprit is the rotor.
On the 80 up bikes with a good ignition system, the swap to a PMA means swapping to a new ignition. The 70-79 bikes with points you can still run the points.
This may also be a consideration. The cost of new stock parts are much less than a PMA + a new ignition.
As I see it the main advantage to a PMA other than a bit more useful output is they can be run without a battery.
I believe in the stock system. Systems like this have been used for a very long time. Most cars use this system.
So do a bit more research on the coast to get the stock parts Total them up compare to a PMA. Then make up your mind.
Either way there is a lot of help on here to get them both working.
Leo
Even if both the stock system and a PMA were 200 watt or 16 amps the PMA gives more usable output. The stock charging system uses a field excited coil that draws around 50-60 watts to excite the alternator. The PMA doesn't. so the PMA has more available to use for other things.
I haven't priced out the components to replace both the stock stator and rotor lately. The last time I looked around it came close to the price of a PMA.
You might find good used parts from someone who swapped his stock parts for a PMA. Might be worth checking around. Stators seldom go bad, the usual culprit is the rotor.
On the 80 up bikes with a good ignition system, the swap to a PMA means swapping to a new ignition. The 70-79 bikes with points you can still run the points.
This may also be a consideration. The cost of new stock parts are much less than a PMA + a new ignition.
As I see it the main advantage to a PMA other than a bit more useful output is they can be run without a battery.
I believe in the stock system. Systems like this have been used for a very long time. Most cars use this system.
So do a bit more research on the coast to get the stock parts Total them up compare to a PMA. Then make up your mind.
Either way there is a lot of help on here to get them both working.
Leo
