is the gearbox using same oil as engine?

[darbiter]

Greetings,

I have planned this year, to get the old xs650se I was gifted by my father when I was a kid.
The bike has been stored in continental climate for 15 years, and lived the time before in a cost climate.

Pretty good shape, had to change right hand interruptors due to storage damage, and ordered a right hand battery cover, has it got lost over the years.

Engine moves, clutch operates, brakes also.
We haven't started the engine yet, as carbs leaked when filling the tank.

I have cleaned them right now, and I am getting ready for oil change.
Do I have to remove both drain plugs?
Do the gearbox and engine share same oil?

I was unable to shut down gas valves, not stuck, but won't close.
Yam dealer gave me part# 13224518 as gasket inside vane, but can't order it at Yamaha. Where could I sound it?

 

[hardrock785]

Welcome Aboard! yes trans and motor uses the same oil. remove both plugs clean both oil screens, one on the bottom and one on the right sidecase. dont use synthetic oil.

 

[weekendrider]

Welcome to the site.
Maybe the dealer was referring to this gasket?
As they age and the lips or vanes wear/shrink it will leak.
Quick and dirty just flip them over but they can be had new.
This link will give you a picture and all the models that used that part.

http://xs1100.com//partinfo.php?myid=55096&mypartno=16G-24523-00-00

 

[darbiter]

That was exactly the part.
Will try the flip, if not working Will buy new ones

 

[fredintoon]

Hi darbiter and welcome,
I don't know about not using synthetic lubricants though.
Not that the correct grade of synthetic oil won't work in an XS650 but it's high cost is only balanced by it's longevity in plain bearing engines with good filters.
If you do an oil change every 1,600 KM as you should on a bike that has an all ball & roller bearing engine and no proper oil filters using synthetic oil will be a complete waste of money.
Perhaps Heiden Tuning in Holland would be a good parts source for you?
Unless your bike was imported into Spain from North America there will be minor differences between it and North American models.
Perhaps you could build your bike's model year and origin into a signature line so we can better help you with any questions you may have?

 

[darbiter]

Thank you, I didn't knew about them.

Anyway I have ordered a few parts from mikexs including a new sump oil filter, as I do have the same problem as everyone else.

I have updated signature

 

[Gibson]

Hi Guys, what's the reason why many of you are saying not to use synthetic oil? I've been using Mobil one specifically for wet clutch motorcycles.

 

[Gibson]

One tip, make sure that the clutch plates are free before kicking it into gear running. Put it in gear and see if you can roll it with the clutch pulled with engine off first. After all that time, the plates will be most likely be stuck together.

 

[grizld1]

Gibson, some owners run full synthetic oil in their XS650's, and there's no problem with the oil as such. But most owners, myself included, don't think that full synthetic provides much benefit in an engine that requires oil changes as frequently as the XS650; full synthetic in that environment won't have longer service life than conventional oil.

 

[arcticXS]

Gibson, some owners run full synthetic oil in their XS650's, and there's no problem with the oil as such. But most owners, myself included, don't think that full synthetic provides much benefit in an engine that requires oil changes as frequently as the XS650; full synthetic in that environment won't have longer service life than conventional oil.

Grizld,
I am curious if the same requirement for frequent oil changes still applies, when using a proper oil filter, like the MikesXS/Heiden small Honda filter, MMMs external filter setup or similar?

Or to put it differently, is it the marginal OEM filtration system, or is it the ball main bearings and roller big ends that "grind up" the molecule chains that creates the requirement for frequent oil changes?

 

[Gibson]

I stick to recommended change intervals, but I think synthetics offer other advantages are overlooked by some. These engines can run very hot in traffic. Modern synthetics are much better in this environment. Synthetic will keep the pistons and ring grooves and valve guides cleaner as well. These bikes only hold 2 quarts, so why skimp on oil? You don't even need to buy a filter...

 

[fredintoon]

- - - is it the marginal OEM filtration system, or is it the ball main bearings and roller big ends that "grind up" the molecule chains that creates the requirement for frequent oil changes?

Hi arctic,
the lack of good oil filtration don't help matters but it's the roller and ball bearings that make the oil wear out so quickly.

 

[arcticXS]

Hi arctic,
the lack of good oil filtration don't help matters but it's the roller and ball bearings that make the oil wear out so quickly.

Fred,
That is what I thought was the consensus in the XS community. But as I also have a couple of 90's Ducatis in the stable, they also have ball main bearings, but plain big end bearings, one has wet clutch, the other a dry clutch. Both have a near car-size full flow oil filter as well. I normally change the oil once a year on both so between 5 and 10000 km ( 3125 to 6250 miles) I use motorcycle specific synthetic oil, like Mobil 1, Valvoline, Agip, Castrol etc. on these bikes. The 600 has done around 100000 km(62500 miles) and the 944 has 35000 km (22000 miles), without any parts wearing out.

So, as you can understand, I am not completely convinced about ball main bearings and oil degradation...

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

I stick to recommended change intervals, but I think synthetics offer other advantages are overlooked by some. These engines can run very hot in traffic. Modern synthetics are much better in this environment. Synthetic will keep the pistons and ring grooves and valve guides cleaner as well. These bikes only hold 2 quarts, so why skimp on oil? You don't even need to buy a filter...

I was hoping to find this out there on the web, so I wouldn't have to write a book, but can't find it.

Regular petroleum oils have a life expectancy vs temperature curve that's relatively flat until out to about 280°F, where the life expectancy curve sharply drops, until about 320-350°F where the life expectancy is about an hour.

Synthetics have a fairly flat life expectancy vs temperature curve, out to just beyond 500°F.

Most of your engine will be running below these temps, except the exhaust valve guide area. Temps of the valve stem, where it rides in the guide, can exceed 800°F.

Here's where the problem comes into play. At the higher extreme temps, petroleum based oils will degrade/decompose into a frangible coke/carbon powder, easily flushed away. Synthetics (at least back then) decompose into a kind of ceramic cement. The exhaust valve delivers its heat to the valve seat and valve guide. If the valve stem -to- guide clearance opens up, the valve stem will run hotter.

In the late '80s to early '90s, the FAA noted an increase in the number of stuck exhaust valve reports, associated with owner/operator switchover to modern synthetics in air-cooled reciprocating aircraft engines. The cause was narrowed down to loose exhaust valve to guide clearances, allowing valve stems to overheat, and the synthetic would decompose into this 'ceramic cement', sticking the valve.

I have personal experience with this, on more than one incident, more than one engine.

As a result, the FAA and Aeroshell published bulletins advising against cutover to synthetics on high-time and worn engines...

 

[Gibson]

Synthetics have changed significantly since the early 90's. Early synthetic oils were terrible. By the end of the 90's, synthetics started to become very good and in many ways superior to conventional oils. Most of the testing data and reports on oils from those earlier days do not really apply to today's synthetic oils.
It is the shearing action of the gears in motorcycle engine /primary and transmissions that cause the destruction of the long chain molecules that cause oils to break down faster.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Synthetics have changed significantly since the early 90's. Early synthetic oils were terrible. By the end of the 90's, synthetics started to become very good and in many ways superior to conventional oils. Most of the testing data and reports on oils from those earlier days do not really apply to today's synthetic oils...

Well then, that would explain why I can't find info on that old problem.
Thanx for clearing that up...

 

[fredintoon]

Well, I wouldn't have bothered posting this but as solo is so interested the topic:-
Back in the 1950s one of my first apprentice tasks (they gave us the monotonous dull repetitive stuff to toughen us up) was to watch the o-ring test rig.
The rig had a mandrel with the test o-ring on it that went up and down in a cylinder on a 10 second cycle in an oil bath.
The "pass" was that the o-ring had to swell less than 15% in 24 hours.
We typically got ~2% using mineral oil.
Then we tried the newly introduced synthetic oils in the test rig.
You couldn't see how much swelling there was because you had to wipe the o-ring off the mandrel with a shop rag.

 

[darbiter]

You mean no swelling. At all?

 

[Gibson]

I remember a friend had a Z1 Kawasaki, he tried the black Mobil 1 when it first came out. It leaked oil everywhere...even in places he didn't think there was oil! It was a mess.

 

[darbiter]

Aren't we a bit off topic?