Leaky from Gearshift Lever

fiveohindc

'77 XS650
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Noob here. Got a bit of oil coming from where the gearshift lever attaches. I'm waiting on my service manual to arrive, but thought I'd throw a pic out and see if you guys might tell me where to start to remedy it. I tried just tightening the screw but that didn't seem to stop it.

Mostly I'm asking because this winter I'm trying to dig into the bike more thoroughly and want to have parts/knowledge prepared ahead of time. Forgive me if it's stupid. The bike is a '77D.

photo-9.jpg
 
Behind that lever is your clutch pushrod seal, and another oil seal behind your front sprocket. They are notorious for leaking. Pull the foot peg, shift lever and that side cover off and take a peek. I'll bet money that one of those two seals are leaking. They are both a pretty cheap and easy fix with plenty of tutorials here on the forum.

Take a flash light, follow the chain up into there and see what it looks like. If its wet in there you've got a leak.
 
The seal behind the drive sprocket can be good, the leak comes from the nut being to loose. Even with the tab lock they seem to loosen up. Some finding them only finger tight.
 
Alright geniuses, more problems. I opened up the left cover like so-- removed footpeg, removed gear lever. Opened her up. Under the cover I saw a buttload of grime (I just picked this bike up in July at Mid-Ohio, no real knowledge of PO or history). Nothing alarming, just old and dirty. Obviously slowly leaking from somewhere but tough to tell.

Took clutch cable off the worm. Wore left cover as a party hat.

I sprayed some degreaser around, didn't want to load up as I wasn't sure what I should or should not throw around near the pushrod, etc. Rinsed it carefully, dried it down thoroughly and got rid of what grease I could by hand and by wire scrub. The goal was to get it cleaned up enough to reassemble, ride it around a bit and see if I could tell where the leak was by the new dribbles/paths of oil. Because to look at it in its earlier state, hell if I knew where it was all coming from.

(I have a pushrod seal and sprocket seal, but i didn;t pick up the damn shift shaft seal, and so therefore I'm sure that'll be the one.)

The worm and spring looked good. Dirty, but good. Little grease here and there, and I reassembled it. The clutch cable should probably be replaced but worth noting that it worked just fine as it was the day before. Pushed the cover in place after reinserting the cable. Looked right.

Tested the clutch at the lever and it felt the same as before, so I didn't mess with it. Fired up the bike, tested it out and promptly dumped myself into the gravel. The clutch is not disengaging when I close the lever. Like... at all.

Put it up on the center stand, and when the lever is squeezed and I put it into first, the wheel moves with pep. Exactly when it shouldn't. How helpful.

Now, I also realize I might need a new pushrod-- a job I will either farm out or wait for my uncle to do because it sounds like something I'd arse up in a hurry. Ball bearings scare me. But in theory, why would the clutch suddenly start this wackery? I've tried adjusting it at the perch, it always was out near the end of its threads anyway but there's still some room. No change.

I am still waiting for my manual. The adjustment at the worm sounds easy, but what do I do first-- loosen the lock nut or turn the screw? When I went to turn the screw either way, it feels seized up.

This is where your suggestions come in. Anything easy I could be missing? I'm going to order a new clutch cable, but now this is just a mystery i MUST SOLVE or my brain will not rest.

Thanks in advance.
 
When you pulled the cover off you dropped the ball bearing out of the worm. It might be in your hair from wearing it as a party hat.
When it was new the ballbearing was held in place by crimps around the edge of the worm where the ball goes. The end of the push rod passes through these crimps. After a few years the rod wears these crimps enough so the ball can fall out.
It's just a 5/16 inch ball. Can be found at most hard ware stores. Put it in the end of the worm, pack with grease to help hold the ball in place.
Leo
 
In the worm gear you have the tension stud with a lock nut. You have to loosen the nut then turn the stud in or out. Do not tighten the lock nut more than snug or you will be fighting it next time. Also inside is a ball bearig that makes up the space between the adjusting stud and the pushrod is that ball bearing still there? Common for it to fall out. Glue it in with grease.
You may have to remove the worm gear to break the lock nut loose. Not uncommon, see warning above.
 
BWHAHAHA Leo you beat me again.
fiveohindc, before you cleaned the area did you see a washed place?
When a seal leaks it seems to wash the area below it cleaner the area around it.
If that makes sense.
 
I hate to ask for further explanation, but here I go anyway. I looked at a parts schematic, and I never pulled the rod out from the oil seal, so it's safe to assume I didn't lose any ball bearing, correct? I didn't pull it out when I took off the cover.
Stupid question- could it have fallen out when i simply wiggled off the cover? It's possible I've used the wrong terminology here, so bear with me.

I'm just trying to understand this better... I did wiggle the pushrod (which I gather is in two pieces with a ball b/w them) laterally a tiny bit. Could this have dislodged it? If so, where the hell is it? Inside somewhere?! That can't be good.

Anyway, before I attempt more I'll wait to hear back. I'm anxious to learn, but also irrationally terrified of making some fatal error. Mostly because I'm already broke -LOL.
 
You're misunderstanding things here. The ball you may have lost is in the worm gear assembly (or should be). It's not shown in any of the parts drawings because it's part of that assembly. Have you lost it? Remove the adjusting screw from the worm gear. If you can look right through it then you have.
 
If you haven't lost the ball, you should make sure that you re-installed the worm gear in the correct orientation. I believe 5twins has a photo of the correct orientation floating around somewhere..
 
The ball was in there, but it was so laden with crud that it wasn't moving freely. Cleaned that up, and freed the adjusting screw and nut.
Skunk, I do believe I have it in the right orientation (i took a picture before removing it) but I will verify by hunting around for 5twins pics. Thanks...

I've heard adjusting the clutch is a "touch" thing, and takes practice. I'm getting plenty of it. I was almost there at one point, able to slow the wheel with just a tap of my foot as it was barely moving, but then I got scrambled and made it worse.

Rather than bang my head against the wall, I'll give it another go after lunch but otherwise the answer may be to get a new cable. I'm sure I've stretched it up real good.

Still haven't begun to approach the leaking seals, but it's probably for the best because I'm gonna have some waiting to do with ordering! Why on earth does MikesXS charge so much for shipping? It's almost criminal!
 
Frustration continues! new clutch cable came in- motion pro, mfg part number is 05-0013. It is considerably longer than the one i removed... baffling. But i installed it, seems to fit okay.

Now when i set about adjusting it, again i cant seem to get it right. Worm gear is orientated correctly, i first loosen at the perch, then down at the cover i loosen the nut. turn screw in till resistance, back off. Tighten the nut, tighten at perch.

sometimes it wont even start unless i pull in the lever, whats with that?? And when adjusted that way-- wherein it gives starting trouble-- it nearly keeps the wheel still as i go into first with clutch disengaged. Nearly. Still creeps though.

How much creep is acceptable creep?! I certainly dont wanna dump the bike again. But weird because i didnt have any other clutch issues until i dove into this thing.
 
When you turned the worm screw in till resistance and backed it off, How much did you back it off? I like 1/8 turn.
Much more and you have to much freeplay between the worm and pressure plate.
Leo
 
When on the centerstand the wheel will spin with the clutch in, that is normal. You should be able to stop it with your shoe. That bit of drag is why you can't readily find neutral while stopped, again that is normal. Oil between the separated clutch plates creates the drag just like a torque converter in a car will cause it to creep at idle. the bike shouldn't roll ahead (much) but will resist being rolled backward a bit when you are clutch in at a stop.
 
XSLeo-- yeah, i think I may have backed it off too much. Too dark now to go outside and fiddle with it, but you're probably right. Any idea why it would have trouble starting while it was loose like that? I don't know what that has to do with the price of tea in china, but it seems to be affecting my starting!

Gggary-- THANK YOU. Jesus, I've been struggling with this clutch, expecting it to be DEAD STOP when I pulled the lever in. Knowing that that little bit of spin is okay just saved me. I'm still learning this stuff, but it's getting easier with the help of all you guys.

May as well do an oil change tomorrow while I have it up on the stand. 20w50 okay? I have a few more quarts in the basement...
 
20 50 is pretty stiff in the winter..
and Hey it's gggGary!

No really, glad that helped.
 
you're right, but we have such lame winters here in northern virginia... last year we were still having cookouts in February... of course now that I said that, it will be a frozen tundra and I'll be shoveling for days. excellent.
 
AND now I hear this scratching, grinding sound coming from beneath the right cover when I squeeze in the clutch. It stops when I let go.

I have to admit, the bike makes a lovely paperweight though.
 
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