Mikes keihin carb kit

whoops :yikes:
I only asked what they were like :( anyway, whatever they are, they seem to be giving good results :)
Thought Id ask the same question to the developers, so Ive emailed Heiden Tuning .
Ill let ya know what they say, if anything :shrug:

Got an email back today from Jerry Heiden from Heiden Tuning
"Hello
I made this carbs correct running for a four stroke [they do not this std]
You can see the power curve on mikes website or mine www.heidentuning.com
They are working better than the VM 34 or 36 dellorto!
The bottom power is more than all other carbs.

Regards jerry"[/COLOR]
Don't say much Im afraid except they maybe were designed for a 2stroke :confused:
 
Got an email back today from Jerry Heiden from Heiden Tuning
"Hello
I made this carbs correct running for a four stroke [they do not this std]
You can see the power curve on mikes website or mine www.heidentuning.com
They are working better than the VM 34 or 36 dellorto!
The bottom power is more than all other carbs.

Regards jerry"[/COLOR]
Don't say much Im afraid except they maybe were designed for a 2stroke :confused:

If you understand the basic carb functional performance differences amongst these carbs you should be able to put one and one together as to why the Keihin out performs the latter of the two at low RPMs but it will be only in that range,then the
34 and 36 begin to flex their muscle as the RPMs increase. Size(Venruri) and throttle valve designs are the major players here.
 
Just an update guys. Everything is working now...if only I could figure out what the hell I did. Rerouted the throttle cables 138 different times until I found the configuration that worked.
But I noticed I had one cylinder not firing, tried the dead cylinder method with a plug grounded on the head with no spark. Tried it again and some light smoke came from somewhere....thought I fried the system.
Put the plugs back in, tried it and kicked over with a half assed kick with both cylinders firing...and a nice colour on the plugs.

So, the moral of this post is thanks everybody. I really appreciate all the time and info you guys give to this board.
Cheers
 
If you understand the basic carb functional performance differences amongst these carbs you should be able to put one and one together as to why the Keihin out performs the latter of the two at low RPMs but it will be only in that range,then the
34 and 36 begin to flex their muscle as the RPMs increase. Size(Venruri) and throttle valve designs are the major players here.

Don't forget that he is running carb spacers that add an inch and a half to the runner length (long runner = low end power). I wonder if he used them when testing the VMs?
 
Thanks Travis

Anyone know what the float hight on these carbs should be??
My right is running rich (Back) & left lean (white)
seems to be a lot of Residue fuil left inside carb manifold on right when I take the carb of

I'm having the same problem with my carbs, left is fouling the plug and the right is burning clean. Seems to only be happening at idle but it's hard to tell since I can't tune it running like it is. I contacted mikesxs thinking that there might be a problem with the idle circuit of the carb but they were no help whatsoever (big surprise).

Anyone else having this problem and has anyone found a solution???
 
The float height is 19mm.

My bike was fouling the plugs with the carbs right out of the box. Float height was fine. To fix it I installed fatter jet needles. They came with JJH needles which are what come in an off the shelf 2-stroke carb. The last letter designates the diameter. They skip "I" so the next size up is JJJ then JJK, JJL, JJM and so on. With JJK needles it no longer fouled the plugs. With JJM needles it ran even better.

The other big issue I was fighting was the throttle cable. The 2-1 splitter is a bad design and poorly machined. The throttle was sticking and I couldn't properly synchronize the slides throughout the throttle range. Replacing the cable with a better one cure the sync issue.
 
19mm from where to where? Thhe bottom of the carb body to ???

The problem I'm having is that only one carb is running fat though. It will foul the left plug after sitting at an idle with the chokes off for a few minutes. I swapped the carbs from left to right to eliminate the possibility of a points, timing or ignition issue and the problem followed the carb. Any ideas?

BTW where did you find the larger needles?

Thanks!
 
Float height is measured from the carb body to the bottom of the float (well, top of the float when you have the carb upside down). The float needle is springy so you need to have the carb upside down with the float resting on the needle, don't push it down or pull it up at all.

How have you been syncing the carbs?

I ordered the needles from Sudco.
 
After setting the idle with the dead cylinder method I adjusted the cables so that both slides opened at the same time off of idle. I'm going to go back today and recheck everything, maybe I'm missing something...

Even the right bank seems to be running fat with the #30 pilots installed. Maybe it's just the needles, I just don't know at this point.

I ordered #25 pilots from mikes on mon but they just got around to mailing them out today so I'll have to wait till next week to try those out.
 
I tried the smaller pilots first. It will compensate for the rich needle to some degree but will leave the curb idle way too lean which forces you to raise the slides further to get it to idle, which then causes it to run off of the (overly rich) needle jet and foul the plugs.

These carbs only have an air screw to fine tune the curb idle. The air screw also effects the transition where you are running off of the straight part of the jet needle. So to tune them properly, you need to select a slow jet (pilot) that will give you the best idle with the air screws between one and two tuns out, then tune the transition by changing the diameter of the jet needles. With the larger needles I was able to step up to a #40 slow jet so that it would idle correctly.

To properly sync the slides you should use a dual vacuum gauge. I use an old mercury manometer (not sure you can buy these any more). They are simple, accurate and durable. With a gauge type sync tool I'm always worried that it's going tho throw the gauge out of calibration if it spits back through the carbs. That is no an issue with the mercury sticks, the column will bounce a little then come right back.

I did rig up an inexpensive gauge setup so I could monitor the carbs while motoring down the road.

SyncTool.jpg


I got two small in-dash vacuum gauges from Harbor Freight (on sale for $14.95) and a bezel from the auto parts store for about $5. Bolt the gauges into the bezel, zip tie it to the handle bars, and run vacuum lines down to the intake boots. Word of warning, these are very cheap and inaccurate. Before using them to tune a bike you need to hook them both to a single vacuum source and see how far off they are from each other. In my case the right one reads about 1.5" higher than the left, so any time I'm comparing the two I need to subtract 1.5 from the reading on the right gauge.

To set the idle speed with vacuum gauges, you will adjust the slide stop screws so that the vacuum readings are even and the idle speed is about 1200rpm. Turning the screws in (clockwise) will raise the slides which will decrease vacuum and increase rpm. The screws are very sensitive, the slightest movement will greatly effect the vacuum readings. It's kind of a juggling act but once you get the feel for it you can dial then in with little effort.

To set the idle mixture with vacuum gauges, turn the mixture screws on both carbs in 1/4 turn at a time (waiting several seconds between each turn to let the motor settle) until you get the highest vacuum reading. If the vacuum is going down then turn them out 1/4 turn at a time until you reach the highest vacuum. Turning the screws in makes it richer, turning them out makes it leaner. Once you have found the best setting, turn the needles in completely until they lightly seat, counting the number of turns. If you are at less than one turn then the slow jet (pilot) is too small. If you are over two turns then the slow jet is too large. As stated above, if your jet needles and pilots are too far off it will effect the curb idle which would render this procedure useless.

To set the cables with vacuum gauges, hold the throttle just off idle and adjust the cables so that the vacuum readings are even. I will try to always turn the adjuster down (clockwise) on the cylinder with the lowest vacuum reading, rather than turn up the cylinder with the highest vacuum reading. If you turn them up you could remove all the free play from the cable which will throw off your idle sync. If everything is working properly then the slides should be synced for the entire throttle range. It's hard to test this when the bike is stationary because there is no load on the engine so you will reach redline with very little throttle. That is where the handlebar mounted gauges come in handy. When going down the road, the gauges should always move in unison. With the Mike's cable, this did not happen.
 
Thank you so much for all the info. These carbs are actually starting to make sense to me now.

I dropped the needle all the way down and went back to the #35 pilots. With the air screws one turn out it seems to be a little fat rolling off idle but is still backfiring on deceleration and the idle is hanging up on occasion which are lean characteristics. The plugs look good though and it's running a lot better.

Not sure where to go with it from here. I'm guess I'm going to order up the fatter needles from sudco and fiddle with it some more.
 
The float height is 19mm.

My bike was fouling the plugs with the carbs right out of the box. Float height was fine. To fix it I installed fatter jet needles. They came with JJH needles which are what come in an off the shelf 2-stroke carb. The last letter designates the diameter. They skip "I" so the next size up is JJJ then JJK, JJL, JJM and so on. With JJK needles it no longer fouled the plugs. With JJM needles it ran even better.

The other big issue I was fighting was the throttle cable. The 2-1 splitter is a bad design and poorly machined. The throttle was sticking and I couldn't properly synchronize the slides throughout the throttle range. Replacing the cable with a better one cure the sync issue.

I have new jets on order now, where are you running the clip on the JJM needles?

TIA!
 
I was running them in the middle slot (#3) but just switched them to #4 (one richer) because it was a bit lean when cruising on the freeway.
 
Cool, I'll start there and see how my bike does. Thanks!

What is your engine setup BTW? Just curious since the tuning seems to be so similar and I haven't read of anyone else who had tuning problems with the keihins and needed to change needles etc.

Mine is a 72' 256 that I just rebuilt from the ground up with new pistons, rings, complete vavle train, etc. It's all stock specs except for a webcam 59a regrind, flowed head and the keihins. It also has open headers that are the same diameter as the factory pipes.
 
Mine is a freshly rebuilt 447, stock bore, with 256 cam, Unipod filters, and stock pipes with the mufflers cut off and homemade "dipstick" baffles welded in.
 
The float height is 19mm.

My bike was fouling the plugs with the carbs right out of the box. Float height was fine. To fix it I installed fatter jet needles. They came with JJH needles which are what come in an off the shelf 2-stroke carb. The last letter designates the diameter. They skip "I" so the next size up is JJJ then JJK, JJL, JJM and so on. With JJK needles it no longer fouled the plugs. With JJM needles it ran even better.

The other big issue I was fighting was the throttle cable. The 2-1 splitter is a bad design and poorly machined. The throttle was sticking and I couldn't properly synchronize the slides throughout the throttle range. Replacing the cable with a better one cure the sync issue.

My cable gives me the shits,, what did you replace it with & are these readily available
or can you get them made up.
 
My cable gives me the shits,, what did you replace it with & are these readily available
or can you get them made up.

I used a Motion Pro Banshee twist grip throttle kit because I wanted to eliminate the switches at the bar.

Any cable that fits the VM34 carbs should also work with these carbs. Try Sudco or 650 Central for better quality units.
 
G'day fellas,

dont mean to interupt anyone's discussions here, just a quick questions....

I've just about read this thread start to finish, but can't find what I'm after. I know that with the MikesXS Keihin Flat slides, you can't use the standard airbox, but can you still get away with the stocky side covers?
 
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