Miss November XS2 tribute

So now I'm thinking that an electrical glitch such as intermittent connector confusses the Boyer box which then takes a huff and shuts down.

This is a good hypothesis and I'll need to check the wiring ignition switch-kill switch-Boyer box for good connection. Take a look at the sender plate too as Bob suggested.

Probably won't happen till we are back from Cornwall - going on a trip in Mrs' car to visit the Eden Project.
Well, this morning have taken the tank off for a little look, concentrating on the ignition circuit. There's a red/white wire, #16 on Miss November's home-spun wiring diagram. Provides feed from the Kill switch to the safety relay, the coil and the Boyer ignition box. Where it divides to coil and Boyer, noticed that the bullet did not appear fully home.

Gentle pull on this wire:

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and it came out. That's the power to the Boyer.

Thinking might have found the culprit. Not quite a smoking gun but got to be more than a co-incidence, yes? If Boyer doesn't like power glitches, then a loose fitting bullet connector would be a prime suspect.

Still can't quite see why the bike seems to lose sparks when slowing down. Hell, that could be a co-incidence - Mrs had a Nissan Sunny, ignition played up every time we drove past a wind farm - of course it weren't nuffin to do with wind farms, I think the garage ended up replacing the ballast resistor.

Tightened the sockets - crimped them slightly with pliers - shoved both bullets back in and pulled the clear insulation back over.

Feeling hopeful.
 
Two miles later.


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Ok, so that's not a definitive test. But the fires lit up readily and stayed lit.

I guess need to build further confidence by riding the old dear a little bit further.

Felt good to be back in the saddle, so to speak!
 
Mrs is sitting on her friend's house, cats, ducks and hens for a couple of days so went over to see her.

Obvious candidate was the Orange Peril - see how she would cope with a slightly longer ride. Pleased to say, managed the sixty-three miles without the engine shutting down. Not even a misfire or hesitation.

Not a definitive test, but feeling more sure than ever that loose bullet was causing the intermittent problem.
 
Bloody motorbikes.

Last time out on the Orange Peril - hmm - to see if she would behave or just give up with a dead engine, didn't get far before I was the one what gave up gave up due to the carbs a-poppin' and a-bangin'. Hello, sez I to meself - I talk to meself at times like that - time to clean the carbs, again, and especially the pilot jets.

Today, bit of carb stripping. Took the opportunity to check jet sizes - pilots 27.5, mains 135. Couldn't help but note that the screw driver slots are worn, as is generally true of carb jets after folk have taken em out and whanged em back in again a few times. Thought it might be an idea to invest in new jets and took a look at motocarb.com. They list various styles of Mikuni jets but the ones I have don't match anything on there. Yer tiz:

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The closest match is N151.067, which has a plain shank, no bleed holes, just like mine, but not available in 27.5. The site also lists VM22/210, same size and shape, available in 27.5, but has eight bleed holes.

@gggGary put up a useful guide to pilot jets https://www.xs650.com/threads/bs-38-pilot-jet.58738/post-671546 which says that '76-'79 bikes ought to have the VM22/210. Miss November is 1978.

How significant is absence/presence of them bleeding holes? My dilemma is go ahead and buy some VM22/210s or look further for plain jets with no bleed holes.

Both Missy and the Bullet currently sitting in the naughty corner of the garage.

Bloody motorbikes.
 
How significant is absence/presence of them bleeding holes? My dilemma is go ahead and buy some VM22/210s or look further for plain jets with no bleed holes.

Reading through the thread you linked Raymond, it appears that using the bleed hole type will "work just fine" to quote @5twins.



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Yes, the "no hole" VM22/210 style pilots used for the '76-'79 BS38 carbs are not available but the normal style with bleed holes in the sides will work just fine. It has to do with how and what the pilot jet flows. In the '76-'79 carbs, the pilots flow straight fuel and air is added above or after the jet. For that reason, air bleed holes in the sides aren't required, but it won't hurt anything if they're there.

BS38 Bowl Types.jpg


The BS30/96 type pilots, as used in the '70-'75 BS38s, do require air bleed holes because air is added to the sides of them and they flow a fuel/air mix. This explains why they are sized in the 40's as opposed to the VM22/210 type which are sized in the mid to upper 20's. You must match the pilot type to the float bowl. On the VM22/210 type bowls, air is fed to the top of the jet. On the BS30/96 bowls, air is fed down an angled passageway to the bottom of the jet.
 
The big difference between the two pilot jet types is which end the metering orifice is on .....

650 Pilot Jets.jpg


That N151.067 type you mentioned is basically a "no hole" version of the BS30/96, so it wouldn't work in your bowls .....

N151.067 Pilot.jpg


Now, I've never tried one in a BS30/96 bowl but doubt I ever will. The BS30/96 pilots are readily available and cheaper too usually.
 
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That's how it's going to sit for a couple of days. Tomorrow, ring Steve at Motocarb and order new pilots & mains - just replacing them 'coz they're slightly chewed. Won't make a blind bit of difference to the jetting, but since I'm in there . . .

Plus got to wait anyhow - ordered a can of compressed air. Not having an actual compressor, will give the carbs a spa bath in the ultrasonic cleaner then blast air through the little passages.
 
View attachment 248195

That's how it's going to sit for a couple of days. Tomorrow, ring Steve at Motocarb and order new pilots & mains - just replacing them 'coz they're slightly chewed. Won't make a blind bit of difference to the jetting, but since I'm in there . . .

Plus got to wait anyhow - ordered a can of compressed air. Not having an actual compressor, will give the carbs a spa bath in the ultrasonic cleaner then blast air through the little passages.
Hi Raymond,
HTF can you live with no air compressor? Canadian Tire ain't an option for you but Halfords will have the affordable 8 or 10 CFM unit you need.
Once you have a compressor there's all manner of air tools that it can drive.
Be aware that air tool collection can become an addiction.
 
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Carbs have been ultrasonically cleaned, rinsed, dried in a warm oven, new pilots and mains fitted, bunged back on't bike.

Been out for a ride round the village. Not too good. But then again, not too bad.

Started readily, first or second kick. Didn't want to idle, but that's normal, always takes at least a minute of warming up before there's a reliable tick-over. Hence decided to go for a short run. Riding around the streets, soon found it doesn't like throttle being shut, reluctant and pops and bangs a bit. But responds eagerly to a little touch of throttle.

By the time we were back at the ranch, there was a tick over but far too slow, so adjusted the throttle-stop screw just a smidge.

I wonder if there might still be some water or cleaning fluid in those little passages? Will take it out for a longer ride when I get a chance and see if a few miles improves things.
 
I wonder if there might still be some water or cleaning fluid in those little passages? Will take it out for a longer ride when I get a chance and see if a few miles improves things.
This morning, able to find time in my busy schedule, I love being retired, to do just that.

Quick blast up the road, through the next village and back by a loop to the main road, maybe 6-7 miles. Opportunity to give the throttle cable a yank, probably not FWO 'coz I don't really do that, but wanted to make sure she's running right plus hopefully draw though any lingering water. Fun too . . .

Back home, still a little bit of popping on shut throttle but not bad and if anything the transition from shut to just-a-bit felt better than before Miss November's personal irrigation.

And the re-torque I did then: https://www.xs650.com/threads/miss-november-xs2-tribute.55057/post-790469

seems to have done the trick - the barrel block still looking good n clean.
 
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Still no definitive solution to the shutting down problem, but Missy seems to have been behaving herself of late.

This afternoon, quick visit to Scott's View. Met a chap using the stunning scenery to photograph his Gilera125.

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He's had it eighteen years, so I guess that's a keeper then.
 
Still no definitive solution to the shutting down problem, but Missy seems to have been behaving herself of late.

This afternoon, quick visit to Scott's View. Met a chap using the stunning scenery to photograph his Gilera125.

View attachment 250705

View attachment 250706

View attachment 250707

He's had it eighteen years, so I guess that's a keeper then.
Just curious, How does the license plate system work in the U.K.? In the U.S., our individual states have different plates and they have a sticker on them that has the expiration date. Why does Miss November have a black plate while the other bike has a yellow plate? I'm a license plate collector, that's why I'm so curious.
 
The whole system is different from what you have in the USA. We have a nation-wide system.

When a vehicle is first registered in the UK, the DVLA* issues a registration number and that stays with the vehicle for all it's life. In nearly all cases, the first registration occurs when the vehicle is sold new from a dealer and the dealer has a number plate made for the vehicle. Well, two plates for a car or van or WHY. The annual tax is the responsibility of the owner. When the owner sells the vehicle, can apply for a refund from DVLA if the tax has not expired. The new owner pays tax using that original registration number. But the registration number stays with the vehicle. You can think of the reg number as the vehicle's name for official purposes. The vast majority of vehicles have the same plastic plates until scrapped. In the UK, we don't have prisoners making number plates . . .

Of course, there are a few minority cases. If you bring a used vehicle into the country, such as Miss November was imported from Canada at about the end of the last century, DVLA requires paperwork about the origin of the vehicle and then issues an 'age-related' registration number. In Miss November's case, the S suffix indicates manufacture between August 1977 and July 1978.

Another exception is when the owner wants to keep a 'cherished number' and transfer that to another vehicle - that can be done by DVLA for a small fee and has grown into a business of buying and selling personalised number plates. My W800 has a personalised number W800RDB where RDB is my initials - Mrs bought me that number, a fantastic coincidence it had come available for sale.

Plates are yellow rear and white front but bikes don't have front plates these days. ** Back in the old days, all number plates were black with white or silver letters. A few years a ago, it was decided that vehicles registered as 'historic' could have old-fashioned black number plates. Historic just means if your vehicle is over forty years old, you apply to DVLA for your vehicle to be classed historic which makes the annual tax zero - Hooray! And you no longer have to submit the vehicle for an annual MOT inspection. There are no restrictions on how you can use a historic vehicle, no silly annual mileage limits for example.

After they ran out of alphabetic suffixes, in 1983 they moved to a single-letter prefix. The H prefix on the Gilera indicates manufacture between August 1990 and July 1991. This century, they've changed that again but too much information . . .

If you are stopped by a Police Officer, he or she has probably already done a PNC check - the Police National Computer - which reads the DVLA dB so by the time the Officer asks your name, they already know the name of the registered keeper, the tax status of the vehicle, whether it is insured, has valid MOT, has been officially scrapped, owner is wanted for a crime and probably a number of other facts.


* Driver& Vehicle Licencing Agency, though they change the name from time to time. DVLA is in Swansea in Wales and people say 'Swansea' for short.

** Long ago when I was a wee kiddy, motorbikes had front number plates, blade shaped, sat on the front mudguard (fender) but it was shown that if a male politician was struck by a moving motorcycle his testicles might be cut off so politicians decided bikes don't need a front number plate.
 
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The whole system is different from what you have in the USA. We have a nation-wide system.

When a vehicle is first registered in the UK, the DVLA* issues a registration number and that stays with the vehicle for all it's life. In nearly all cases, the first registration occurs when the vehicle is sold new from a dealer and the dealer has a number plate made for the vehicle. Well, two plates for a car or van or WHY. The annual tax is the responsibility of the owner. When the owner sells the vehicle, can apply for a refund from DVLA if the tax has not expired. The new owner pays tax using that original registration number. But the registration number stays with the vehicle. You can think of the reg number as the vehicle's name for official purposes. The vast majority of vehicles have the same plastic plates until scrapped. In the UK, we don't have prisoners making number plates . . .

Of course, there are a few minority cases. If you bring a used vehicle into the country, such as Miss November was imported from Canada at about the end of the last century, DVLA requires paperwork about the origin of the vehicle and then issues an 'age-related' registration number. In Miss November's case, the S suffix indicates manufacture between August 1977 and July 1978.

Another exception is when the owner wants to keep a 'cherished number' and transfer that to another vehicle - that can be done by DVLA for a small fee and has grown into a business of buying and selling personalised number plates. My W800 has a personalised number W800RDB where RDB is my initials - Mrs bought me that number, a fantastic coincidence it had come available for sale.

Plates are yellow rear and white front but bikes don't have front plates these days. ** Back in the old days, all number plates were black with white or silver letters. A few years a ago, it was decided that vehicles registered as 'historic' could have old-fashioned black number plates. Historic just means if your vehicle is over forty years old, you apply to DVLA for your vehicle to be classed historic which makes the annual tax zero - Hooray! And you no longer have to submit the vehicle for an annual MOT inspection. There are no restrictions on how you can use a historic vehicle, no silly annual mileage limits for example.

After they ran out of alphabetic suffixes, in 1983 they moved to a single-letter prefix. The H prefix on the Gilera indicates manufacture between August 1990 and July 1991. This century, they've changed that again but too much information . . .

If you are stopped by a Police Officer, he or she has probably already done a PNC check - the Police National Computer - which reads the DVLA dB so by the time the Officer asks your name, they already know the name of the registered keeper, the tax status of the vehicle, whether it is insured, has valid MOT, has been officially scrapped, owner is wanted for a crime and probably a number of other facts.


* Driver& Vehicle Licencing Agency, though they change the name from time to time. DVLA is in Swansea in Wales and people say 'Swansea' for short.

** Long ago when I was a wee kiddy, motorbikes had front number plates, blade shaped, sat on the front mudguard (fender) but it was shown that if a male politician was struck by a moving motorcycle his testicles might be cut off so politicians decided bikes don't need a front number plate.
Thank you for the very informative response. We have a television show here in the U.S. called "Live P.D." in which camera crews ride with police officers. We have a huge problem with people driving with expired registration, no insurance and expired or revoked licenses. Sadly, there seems to be very little in the way of consequences for breaking those type of laws. My first XS650 was hit head on (after I sold it) by a drunk woman going the wrong way. She had no license, registration or insurance. My friend who had purchased my bike had a broken collarbone and the bike was a total loss. She basically got a slap on the wrist. But I digress, thanks again for a very interesting and informative answer.
 
Historic just means if your vehicle is over forty years old, you apply to DVLA for your vehicle to be classed historic which makes the annual tax zero - Hooray! And you no longer have to submit the vehicle for an annual MOT inspection. There are no restrictions on how you can use a historic vehicle, no silly annual mileage limits for example.
Same here in Mississippi, but 25 years. In Georgia, where I came here from, the “Antique” tag just means you pay $50 extra each year for the honor and receive no benefit. Having come up with it, I like our 50 systems.
 
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