My strange fork caps/Forks work terribly

drewfunk

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Hey guys, can you identify my fork caps? I havent seen another set like these before. They have a little nipple of sorts coming out of the side, but it lets air in and out so the fork tubes arent sealed. Isnt that detrimental?
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Since i purchased my XS the forks have been lousy, they sag super low and the dampening is terrible, they dont rebound quickly at all. Today i drained the oil, added 30w motor oil, and they seem to work even worse than before. They still sag very low with a rider on them, and they move very sloth like.
 
Those aren't stock for the xs650.....may be off a dirt bike? How about some full pics of the forks. I've seen similar in the past while searching for some frankenbike changes, though I don't recall what exactly they were used on.
 
I'm guessing a home brew air fork set up off some other bike. Or the whole fork set may be off "some other bike". Those nipples would be tied together with tubing and a schrader valve assembly. Air forks were common in the early 80s then generally abandoned because of stiction in the seals due to air pressure causing harsh action on small bumps. The fork springs would be rather flaccid without air to help hold up the bike.
 
Those are pneumatic caps. That is for an air line. It probably rides like total shit with that on there. When your suspension compresses, the only thing that actually is compressed is the spring, and the air above the oil in the fork tube. The height of the oil, the weight of the oil, and the number and size of holes in the damping rod determine what your damping and ride compliance is like. With no compressable airspace on top of the fork, you are pretty much running spring only. The compliance of the ride can be dictated by the height the oil is run at, which meters at the same time, the amount of air that is available to compress. Back in the 80's some manufacturers toyed with the idea of using compressed air as an adjustable function, so that when you wanted a nice plush cushy ride you could leave it as delivered, but when you wanted to go out on a "sporting" ride, and maybe wanted it to behave better under heavy braking and cornering loads, you would add as much as 12 PSI to the top of the forks, which effectively lowered the amount of travel required to start forcing the fork oil through the metered orifices (the holes in the damper tubes), so the damping curve was "raised". Some of these setups had a seperate shcrader valve on each fork, but those were near suicidal, as my dad can tell you from hitting a bump at 90MPH on his GS1000. Other, later systems had a single service point, and a "bridge line" that went from the side with the service valve over to the other side, so the chambers remained balanced. This was a superior setup, but people found it cumbersome to mess with, and that "technology" was a bit beyond the average street rider. People would often over-pressurize the forks, and would end up blowing thier seals. Not much pressure was required. Bottom line, get some different caps.
 
Thanks guys, you all confirmed my suspicions. I figured they were some kind of butchered pneumatic caps. My 82 Nighthawk has air assist with a bridged hose between the forks, so i'm familiar with air forks. I'm going to try removing the nipples and filling the remaining holes with jb weld to see if that makes a difference.

Oh, and i'm pretty sure they are xs650 forks, the legs look correct. Under the cap was a steel tubular spacer, about 1.5 inches long, and then a flat disk ontop of the fork spring. Does that sound correct?

Here is a picture while i was installing the fork gators.
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Sounds like the top was adapted for those caps. The original caps should have had 3 position adjusters in them for pre-load, and that's what the spacers would be making up for. You can manually adjust the preload by changing the length of the spacer, But I would only embark on that with a new spring. Stackup sounds ok. Flush those holes out good with some carb cleaner, and shoot those tubes full of JB, and your damping should improve.
Go here, and check out the Minton mods while you have it apart. May save you some time, and get them working much better for you.
http://www.650central.com/ And it may very well be that it has the mods, and those are S&W air caps. Read the front suspension section.
Scroll down into the second group of page links on the left and go to the Minton Mods tab. Props to gggGary for helping me find this!
 
Thanks for the info! I will read through the minton mods thoroughly.

The current caps are completely hollow inside, will that extra airspace negatively effect the dampening? Should i completely fill the caps to increase the pressure in the forks?
 
Thanks for that link! I know what these are now. Who's idea was it to use those dinky little plastic nipples and air hose? I wouldnt trust that shit to hold pressure. At least my Nighthawk uses legit schrader valves and rubber air hoses.
 
You could re-work the bridge and keep it balanced, but if you blow one fork seal when they are like that, the whole front goes pogo. I think I'd rather limp home on one good damper. I have seen the Nighthawk 650 setup, and it is more legit, for sure.
 
I ended up cutting the nipples off, and filling the inside air passages with JB Weld. We'll see how that turns out!
 
K. gggGary has some recent experience with setting fork oil by height, rather than volume, which is more accurate, and should get you in a good ball park with the amout of fork oil. You can just turn those fork caps upside down, and fill them with fork oil, and dump that capful into the tube to make up for the extra air space, or measure one volumetrically and extrapolate to the other.
 
No I don't, I just used a graduated cylinder and filled em. They work fine for me with the mikesXS cart emulators. I probably should fine tune em but I haven't. I know they work because I can hear the washer stack "blow off" on compression. I need to get back on it. I have been zipping around on the ZX14 and it may have spoiled me forever. Took the Shadow Aero 1100 out yesterday and it felt like an old dish rag. I won on the 14, sold, before I maimed, killed myself or lost my license.
 
Haven't tried the 14. Busa was scary enough, and never got it past 3rd gear!

I guess I crossed conversations on the fork oil height. Sorry.
 
XSLeo had said in a fork oil thread that he just put in 7.5 ounces in each fork leg, so thats what i did. When i put them back together this time i will measure the height though.

Hey gggGary, how are those emulators? I was wanting to pick some up after getting my forks in functioning form.
 
I think they are an improvement and they offer the ability to do some tuning to the way you want the fork to act. Between those, new tires and the front brake R&R with stainless line and 10mm master cylinder, I feel confident riding in a more "sporty" manner.
 
I run about 7 ounces of oil in each leg. That brings the oil level up to about 7" below the tube tops, forks compressed and springs removed. Stock oil amount is just under 6 ounces. Frankly, I don't think it's enough. The forks just plain work better with a bit more oil in them.

I've done the Minton mods to mine and quite like the results. Much more compliant ride under normal driving conditions and no ill effects I've noticed when pushing hard. Find yourself some stock preload adjuster caps if you can, they're very nice. They'll give you 3 spring preload settings, each one increasing the preload by 10mm .....

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