New member starting a project 650

[tonyc]

I wish I had your mechanical talent.

Posted via Mobile

 

[johnnyc14]

Thanks guys. Here is a "rule of thumb" chart I use to determine cutting speeds for lathe tools and end mills (high speed steel). Keep in mind that I am a hobby user and don't have to meet production schedules so the speeds are pretty conservative to prolong tool life.

Cutting speeds for lathe or mill in Surface Feet per Minute (SFPM).

- Mild steel---100
- Tool Steel---70
- Aluminum---250
- Cast Iron---60
- Brass---300+
- Stainless steel---75

To calculate RPM-

4 Times recommended cutting speed in SFPM
Diameter of moving part in inches


EG: milling mild steel with 5/8"end mill.


4 X 100 SFPM
.625"(5/8)

400/.625=640 RPM

EG"turning 1.5"mild steel in lathe.

400/1.5=267 RPM


For drill bits I use this chart.

I used a 3/16" drill to start then a 5/16" drill then a 1/4" end mill and used the chart to set the speed. I use only carbide end mills so they last a long time with these conservative speeds.

 

[johnnyc14]

I had a few broken bolts to deal with on the engine. One of the starter motor mount bolts was broken flush with the case. I mounted the lower crankcase on an angle plate and set it level in the vise and used a 1/4" end mill to remove all of the bolt except what was in the case threads. The ran a tap into the hole to remove the remainder. It worked out nice with the threads still in good shape. I had to do the same on the cam cover for one of the point housing bolts.

 

[johnnyc14]

I recently picked up a couple of Buell project bikes, a 99 X1 which I am now riding daily and a 98 S3 which had no engine. The S3 has a nice set of 54mm WP upside-down forks that I could sell but I thought they would work on my Yamaha XS650 project bike. I mocked up the triple clamps from the Buell onto the Yamaha and liked what I saw so I decided to go ahead and try to make the swap work. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to use the 19" Yamaha wheels or the 17" Buell wheels, that will depend on what I come up with for the rear suspension. Here is the XS650 frame mocked up with the Buell triple clamps, forks and front wheel.

The Buell fork legs are 2" shorter than the XS forks so they will need to be extended, also the 17" wheel would put the bike 1" closer to the ground than the 19" ones.

I decided to make up a pair of 3" extensions like these ones from Extreme Creations.


http://www.extremecreations.com.au/post/2013/05/01/Hayabusa-fork-extensions.aspx

I decided to use some thick wall high strength steel tubing instead of the aluminum ones from EC, just because it was what I had on hand. The fork OD is 2.125" and the ID is 2.00" and the steel tube I have is 2.5'OD and 2.0" ID. The thread required is 49mm X 1.5mm pitch. I made up 2 three inch long outer tube extensions with a male thread on one end and female on the other.

The internal dampers in the fork will have to be moved up 3" as well so I made up a couple of 3" damper assembly extensions from some 1" 6061 aluminum I had on hand.

Before I install them on the forks I'm going to color them with gun blue but they thread on very nicely and the O-rings on the original caps fit perfectly into the top of the extensions.

The triple clamps will need work to be retrofitted so that's the next thing on the list.


John

 

[Paulrxs650]

Nice work. A man after my own heart

 

[johnnyc14]

I wanted to replace the ugly old rusty chrome front engine mount on the XS650 project bike. I stole this design from another member of the XS650 Forum. The only welded part will be the large washers attached to each plate at the engine. This is an image provided by Ristis on the XS650 forum.

I’m going to use metal I have on hand, not stainless like Ristis did. I started with the old mount and clamped it to the mill table with the bolt holes vertical. The holes are 10mm and I have some pieces of 10mm drill rod that are a perfect fit so I used one of them to locate the holes and plot them on my DRO.

With the holes plotted I drilled three 10mm (.390”) holes in a piece of 5/16” plate steel and checked the fit with 3 lengths of drill rod and they lined up perfectly with the old mount.

Then I drew a rough outline around the bolt holes to mimic the shape of the original mount, my goal was to leave at least ½” from the edge of the holes. I cut it out using my Portaband saw on a vertical stand I built.

I set the piece up in the vise using the drill rods to get the holes horizontal and milled all 3 sides flat with equal spacing from the edge. Then test fit it on the engine/frame.

Perfect fit. Then I just had to make another one and use the first one and drill rods to mill them both the same.

Then I mounted both pieces on my rotary table and made a radius on all the corners.

I installed the bolt through the engine cases and tightened it so I could measure the space between the plates and frame tube to make the outer spacers. The left side measured .590” and the right is .555”. I enlarged the 2 frame mount holes to .625” then I machined 2 spacers for the left side with .590” of .980” diameter and .600” of .626” diameter. The .626” part is a .001” interference fit into the plate and the center spacer. I pressed the spacers into the plate and test fit the parts. Perfect so far.

That’s it for today.


John

 

[johnnyc14]

I got the engine mount finished. I decided to add some decorative holes to the plates and I spot welded a washer to each plate to fit against the engine. I dressed the spot welds off on the belt sander. I machined 3 spacers, one for each side and one to go between the plates.

Then I pressed all the part together in my Yost vise with aluminum jaws.

The finished mount fits like a glove and looks a lot better than the original I think.

John

 

[johnnyc14]

I got new bronze swing arm bushings from Dime City and cleaned up the old shaft and sleeve. They are in good shape so I'm going to re-use them.

I decided to make a swing arm brace from some old handle bars. The 7/8 Chrome moly tube is perfect for this job. I cut the bars up and used some of the bends to form the brace and TIG welded the parts together.

I MIG welded the brace to the swing arm and bead blasted the assembly before pressing in the new bushings.

I mocked up the engine with the trans output shaft in it to make sure my sprocket alignment was still good after welding on the swing arm. It lines up perfectly.

 

[upthemaiden]

Love the X1 in the background! My daily ride is a 97 S1.

Engine mount looks great, looks really meaty with the diameter of those spacers and the thickness of the plates.

 

[johnnyc14]

Thanks, I love my Buell. I bought a new M2 in 2000 but sold it in 2008 when I bought the Concours 1400. I just picked up this X1 recently as a non runner. It had a bad fuel pump and some other electrical problems caused by corrosion in the fuse block. Runs like a top now.

I really like the minimalist look of the S1. I'm slowly removing stuff from my X1 to get closer to the look of an S1.

 

[johnnyc14]

I got the Buell forks and triple clamps modified for the XS650. The Buell steering stem is about 1" too short so I pressed the original steering stem out of the lower triple clamp. I ordered some retrofit steering head bearings from All Balls with 48mm OD and one with 27mm and the other 30MM ID. The 48mm OD will fit the XS frame and the ID's will fit the custom steering stem I am machining. This pic show the original stem and the custom one I made along with the 2 bearings. I machined the stem to have a .002" interference fit into the lower triple clamp but I threaded the ID to 5/8" NF to assure it can't slip off. The lower inner bearing is a .0005" interference fit to the stem and the upper is a snug finger press fit. The upper triple clamp is a .001" interference fit onto the stem.

The Buell stem was originally held to the triple with a press fit and a snap ring. I feel safer with a bolt holding it on.

The outer races fit the frame perfectly.

The upper end of the stem is threaded to 5/8" NF as was the original Buell stem.

There is some interference between the upper triple clamp and the front of the gas tank. I used some 1/4" bolts threaded into the bottom of the upper triple clamp to form steering stops and will have to move the gas tank mounts rearward 1/2".

It has about the same amount of steering lock as my Buell.

I got the Yamaha front wheel mounted in the Buell forks last night. It was amazingly easy as the 17mm Buell axle is the right size for the Yamaha wheel bearings and the only thing I had to make was a .075" spacer between the left fork leg and the speedo drive on the wheel. I had to machine a locating tab off the speedo drive and make it flat on the side that fits against the fork leg. I struggled with measuring the distance from the wheel to each fork leg accurately until I spent a half hour making up a tool for the job. I uses a simple fixture to hold a dial indicator and very accurately measures that dimension and it now centered perfectly (within .005"). Now I have to figure out what to do about brakes.

 

[upthemaiden]

The steering range on the Buells is pretty tough in tight places. I only notice it when I'm pushing it around in the garage or if I'm trying to pull a really tight U-turn in a parking lot. Your idea looks good though, if you ever decide you need more movement you could just grind down the stop on the head tube so it's a little skinnier. Wish the buell triples came with fork stops already on them. I hate how a little piece of foam-rubber glued to the frame was their best idea for a fork stop. Not sure if your x1 is the same way but if you had an M2 then you definitely know what I'm talking about. I'd say for brakes, since you already have the mill, the easiest option would be to make a brake caliper adapter(or two) so you could just run the normal xs rotor and caliper(or two). You could also just make an adapter for the buell rotor to keep the nissin caliper if you though the xs parts would look a little scrawny on the new bigger forks and didn't want to clutter things visually with a caliper adapter. Either way would look good!

Good call on the bolt instead of the retaining clip. Not sure which handlebar clamp you have for those forks. If you want something a little cleaner than the bulky clamps they typically have, when I had my XB I bought a spare handlebar top clamp and cut it down so it was just the two individual clamp halves and removed that whole center part. I thought it looked a bit nicer than the original part. I'm sure you'll come up with something good though. I can find a picture somewhere if you're not sure what I mean.

I've seen some nice X1s. I agree I like the minimal look of the S1(and the XBS), I always thought the X1 looked a bit busier, with the bigger tail and larger tank. I'm sure the FI is nice, but mine runs well with the carb. I just picked it up in February, met the owner halfway to pick it up(Pittsburgh to North Caronlina). Needed fork seals, new front brakes, and turn signals before it was ride-able. Unfortunately that took 6 months due to a kitchen redo that consumed all of my time. I just got it on the road about 2 weeks ago but it's been great since! ....aside from a dying sidestand switch that occasionally kills the engine and makes it look like I have no idea how to pull away from a stop sign haha.

 

[rainycity]

Isnt 6061 aluminum aircraft grade? I have only seen that here in flat stock mainly.

 

[johnnyc14]

Isnt 6061 aluminum aircraft grade? I have only seen that here in flat stock mainly.

No. 6061 is a high grade aluminum that is available in sheet, round bar, flat bar or tubing. I have all 3 in my shop usually. I buy drops from a local machine shop where my neighbor works.

 

[johnnyc14]

The steering range on the Buells is pretty tough in tight places. I only notice it when I'm pushing it around in the garage or if I'm trying to pull a really tight U-turn in a parking lot. Your idea looks good though, if you ever decide you need more movement you could just grind down the stop on the head tube so it's a little skinnier. Wish the buell triples came with fork stops already on them. I hate how a little piece of foam-rubber glued to the frame was their best idea for a fork stop. Not sure if your x1 is the same way but if you had an M2 then you definitely know what I'm talking about. I'd say for brakes, since you already have the mill, the easiest option would be to make a brake caliper adapter(or two) so you could just run the normal xs rotor and caliper(or two). You could also just make an adapter for the buell rotor to keep the nissin caliper if you though the xs parts would look a little scrawny on the new bigger forks and didn't want to clutter things visually with a caliper adapter. Either way would look good!

Good call on the bolt instead of the retaining clip. Not sure which handlebar clamp you have for those forks. If you want something a little cleaner than the bulky clamps they typically have, when I had my XB I bought a spare handlebar top clamp and cut it down so it was just the two individual clamp halves and removed that whole center part. I thought it looked a bit nicer than the original part. I'm sure you'll come up with something good though. I can find a picture somewhere if you're not sure what I mean.

I've seen some nice X1s. I agree I like the minimal look of the S1(and the XBS), I always thought the X1 looked a bit busier, with the bigger tail and larger tank. I'm sure the FI is nice, but mine runs well with the carb. I just picked it up in February, met the owner halfway to pick it up(Pittsburgh to North Caronlina). Needed fork seals, new front brakes, and turn signals before it was ride-able. Unfortunately that took 6 months due to a kitchen redo that consumed all of my time. I just got it on the road about 2 weeks ago but it's been great since! ....aside from a dying sidestand switch that occasionally kills the engine and makes it look like I have no idea how to pull away from a stop sign haha.

As you say, I think I will reduce the width of the steering stop bracket on the frame to provide a little more turning radius. My X1 has the cheesy rubber bumper stops too. I'm still pondering what to do with the brakes. I don't have a Buell caliper or rotor and they would be pricey to buy but would look really good I think. I could make an adapter to convert the six bolt hole wheel to the five hole Buell rotor. With a little modification and the addition of a small adapter the XS caliper could be made to fit the Buell fork but I would want dual discs then because of the single piston caliper. This would not look or work as well I think but would be cheaper and I've already spent the budget on this build.

The Buell FI is pretty crude, 99 was the first year. I'd rather have a carb but it is working OK for now. I bypassed the side stand and clutch lever switches on my M2 and will probably do it on the X1 too.

Cheers,

John

 

[upthemaiden]

If you're already machining parts anyway, you could technically make any caliper fit, you could see what's cheap on ebay. Of course then you're looking at new lines, MC, levers, some rotors.... maybe you can find someone selling a whole setup. I'd say for the style of bike you're building, the single rotor would probably be fine as long as it was a bit bigger than the XS caliper.

FI is nice on newer bikes, but an old one like this that I plan to keep forever, the simplicity of the carb is nice, especially once buell parts dry up and I'll need to collect random parts to keep the bike on the road. The switch was giving me a hard time again this morning and again after work. It's definitely getting remove this weekend.

 

[johnnyc14]

Yeah I would appreciate a simple carb like my M2 had. I know what you mean about Buell part supply drying up. I bought a new throttle body with TPS, a new O2 sensor, a drive belt and a set of all 3 isolators from St. Paul HD while he still has some in stock.

John

 

[johnnyc14]

Today I worked on one possible brake solution. My front caliper needs a new piston and seal kit, about $60 CAD for parts. I'd also like to have dual discs so I'd have to find a left caliper. All the junkyards around here want $50 to $80 for a seized up old piece of crap so I would probably buy a new one from XS650.com for $125. So I worked on making an adapter to go from Buell fork to XS brake caliper. I started with a 4" X 1.5" block of aluminum and the original caliper bracket. I milled some of the old caliper bracket off and then milled a flat surface parallel to the brake pads. I drilled and tapped a hole for the lower fork leg bolt. The zip ties on the OD of the rotor are to provide correct clearance while holding the caliper bracket in place to mark the hole location.

Then I started carving the aluminum block into the shape of an adapter with the mill, band saw and files. Part way through it looked like this.

Then I kept removing excess material until I got to this point. A little more work to be done but this will work and not look too ugly.

I'm still not sure this is the way I want to go. I'm going to post another thread regarding my other thought on this front brake issue.

 

[johnnyc14]

OK here's the deal. I spent a couple of hours at a local bike wrecker trying to find calipers that will be easy to retrofit to the Buell fork. The Buell caliper and rotor are possible but I don't have either and they would be expensive used. The calipers I found that would be the easiest to fit are the Brembos from a wrecked Ducati 916 but the wrecker wants new price for them. I found a link to the dimension drawings for the calipers on the OPP Racing site.

http://www.oppracing.com/product_di...aliper-p4-3034c-gold-caliper-right-side-40mm/

I pasted their drawing onto Paint and manipulated the size so I could print a picture in the actual size of the caliper and then flipped the image to fit the left side and printed it. I played with the image size until I got the 72mm dimension right. A little work with scissors and I had a paper cut out of the actual caliper to fit to the bike.

This would be my preferred solution if I can find a set of calipers. There are some Chinese knockoffs on eBay but I'm not sure if they would be any good. The Chinese calipers are cheaper than a piston and seal kit to repair the old Yamaha single piston one.

 

[Ranger]

Loving what your doing man! If you're up to a 3,800 mile round trip next summer, you should definitely bring your bike to the XS650 Fest and Chopoff at Pandemonium Custom Choppers in Ohio. We can all appreciate outside-the-box thinking on an xs650...

On my current build, I'm running 320mm Ducati rotors (off a Monster 900, if I remember right... I have a build thread you can check out). They have the same bolt pattern as the xs650 rotor and are a lighter, 2-piece design. They do, however have less offset. Because if this, I opted for dual 2-piston brembo calibers, also off a Ducati, as they are slimmer on the backside. I haven't yet mounted them, as I still have to build my frontend, but everything looks pretty straight forward.

Brembos usually bring a premium. There are other used sportbike calipers that are much less expensive that you could consider, like Tokico or Nissin. They still would be plenty for your xs.