New Quirks After Installing E-Advancer

[ninskrillz]

Hey boys and girls, gotta couple things I'm trying to work out after installing Pamco's e-advancer on my 71. After installing, setting timing and setting carb idle/mixture, the bike started coughing white smoke out of the air filter, specifically the left side. When the choke is on it seems to produce more smoke and when the right choke is on, it comes out of the right filter too. This only happens if the bike doesn't fire up. So say I kick it, it doesnt start, a big puff of white smoke comes out.

It's also kinda hard at starting. It takes anywhere from 4-10 kicks to get it going, and it doesnt fire right up, sorta boggy at first then after a second roars to life. Once its going it idles and rides good.

Any ideas whats causing this? Im sure its the new advancer thats causing it, moreso removing the shitty mechanical advance threw me outta wack.

 

[davetherave]

Mine has the same symptoms.
The timing is bang on the 'F' at idle and advances right up to the advance mark!
When the engine is warm it stars fine but cold its typically 4 to 6 kicks with some puffs white smoke popping back out an air filter, it also idles fine and runs silky smooth. I find it starts better if i do 2 kicks with the ignition off, then ignition on and 1 or 2 kicks pop/backfire out the filters then she fires up. Not really a problem but a bit annoying.
Is this normal for the e-advance unit?

 

[pamcopete]

nins and dave,

What kind of charging system do you have? If a PMA, are you using a capacitor or a battery?

 

[davetherave]

nins and dave,

What kind of charging system do you have? If a PMA, are you using a capacitor or a battery?

Hi Pete,
I'm still on the original charging system, It's putting 14V into an 8Ah Battery.
Cheers,
Dave.

 

[ninskrillz]

nins and dave,

What kind of charging system do you have? If a PMA, are you using a capacitor or a battery?

I've got a battery powered PMA setup

 

[Higgy]

Have you guys talked to Pamco about this yet?

 

[Higgy]

Someone doesn't read.

Kind of harsh, but yeah. My bad.

 

[Higgy]

Sorry...I don't do PC. Heed your sig.

So you are just here to cause trouble? My original post was to offer advice and learn a little bit, not to illicit flak from some fuckwad. I admitted to my fuckup. Let it rest.

 

[ninskrillz]

How bout you guys just pull your wieners out and have a measuring contest, only way to settle the dispute.

 

[Higgy]

Hey Solo, you've been here for 3+ years. I respect that. Also, posting only 14 times during your tenure here indicates to me that you've spent more time listening than talking, which I also respect.

I did fuck up. I admit it. I also admit that I have not been in the XS650 world as long as you.

I apologize if I offended you with my stupidity. I also apologize to anyone else here that may have suffered pain and emotional damage, re: my sig, for my admission of said stupidity. I regret that I was only halfway-through my second cup of coffee this morning when I made the original post.

I also apologize for my post which contained inappropriate language. I feel ashamed now. I will also remove my sig, since its more of an autobiography than a humorous declarative statement.

 

[pamcopete]

OK. I'm back....Nins and dave. One is using a small battery and the other a PMA and both of these setups can be a source of irregular voltage, despite what you may measure at idle. I would suggest that you both have your batteries load tested first. Then, try running the engine with just the battery connected and the alternator and PMA out of the picture. You can doi this in both cases by simply unplugging the regulator.

Doing this test is a lot easier and faster than us getting involved in a lengthy discussion of what can go wrong with those setups. Suffice to say that if the problem goes away, you have a battery / charging issue.

I may have asked this before, but did you both use a timing light to set the timing? That is an absolute necessity. Also check to be sure that the three locating pins are installed and engaged with the advance cap and check that the advance rod does not move in any direction.

 

[ninskrillz]

OK. I'm back....Nins and dave. One is using a small battery and the other a PMA and both of these setups can be a source of irregular voltage, despite what you may measure at idle. I would suggest that you both have your batteries load tested first. Then, try running the engine with just the battery connected and the alternator and PMA out of the picture. You can doi this in both cases by simply unplugging the regulator.

Doing this test is a lot easier and faster than us getting involved in a lengthy discussion of what can go wrong with those setups. Suffice to say that if the problem goes away, you have a battery / charging issue.

I may have asked this before, but did you both use a timing light to set the timing? That is an absolute necessity. Also check to be sure that the three locating pins are installed and engaged with the advance cap and check that the advance rod does not move in any direction.

I'm actually using a small battery as well. It's a 5.1 amp Duracell sealed battery. I set the timing with a timing light, albeit a shitty one from harbor freight. I will try unplugging the reg/rec and see if the problem persists.

 

[ninskrillz]

One other thing, every so often I do get a fairly strong kickback from the kick starter ever since the e advance install which wasn't happening before.

 

[XSLeo]

ninskrillz, Just out of curiosity what carbs are you using? You said it blows white smoke out of the left carb when you use the choke and out the right when you use the right choke.
Those must be some aftermarket carbs. You might have them tuned just a bit off.
I started out running the basic Pamco then later upgraded to the E-advancer version. I never had symptoms as you describe.
I have run a stock 76-77 BS38 carb set, an 82 set of BS34's and now run a set of the EX500 Ninja carbs.
They all worked well no starting issues.
Leo

 

[ninskrillz]

ninskrillz, Just out of curiosity what carbs are you using? You said it blows white smoke out of the left carb when you use the choke and out the right when you use the right choke.
Those must be some aftermarket carbs. You might have them tuned just a bit off.
I started out running the basic Pamco then later upgraded to the E-advancer version. I never had symptoms as you describe.
I have run a stock 76-77 BS38 carb set, an 82 set of BS34's and now run a set of the EX500 Ninja carbs.
They all worked well no starting issues.
Leo

Vm34 carbs, I suspect it might be a bit rich in the pilot circuit, could that be causing the issue?

 

[5twins]

I think your timing may be a bit too advanced. The occasional kick-back is an indication of that, and maybe the not so easy starting too. I would check the timing again with a good light. In the mean time, if you want to experiment and retard it just a little to see if it helps, draw a line with a Sharpie from the Pamco plate onto the housing. This is your "match" mark indicating where the plate is set now. Turn the plate counterclockwise just a hair, so the single line becomes two just out of line with each other. This will retard your timing a couple degrees.

 

[ninskrillz]

I think your timing may be a bit too advanced. The occasional kick-back is an indication of that, and maybe the not so easy starting too. I would check the timing again with a good light. In the mean time, if you want to experiment and retard it just a little to see if it helps, draw a line with a Sharpie from the Pamco plate onto the housing. This is your "match" mark indicating where the plate is set now. Turn the plate counterclockwise just a hair, so the single line becomes two just out of line with each other. This will retard your timing a couple degrees.

that was my other thought, im going to go back into the advance cap, make sure its nice and snug, twerk the timing a bit then if that fails twerk the pilot circuit a bit

 

[pamcopete]

nins...,

Don't forget the possibility that your battery is bad and with the PMA setup that you have it may take a lot of kicks to charge the battery up sufficiently to power the ignition. Be sure your headlight is off when kicking as the headlight will draw the battery down below the required voltage for the ignition. As suggested before, get a known good full size fully charged battery to power the ignition as a test. The PAMCO ignition, like all ignitions has to have power to work. The standard PAMCO will work down to 6 Volts but the E-Advancer works down to about 8 Volts. You may see that voltage when you measure the battery with no load, but it may not be there with the ignition turned on when you kick it. The E-Advancer draws only .010 Amps so just turning on the ignition will not draw the battery down so again you may think you have enough voltage but as soon as you kick it, the coil gets turned on and that is where the battery voltage may drop below 8 Volts.

 

[ninskrillz]

nins...,

Don't forget the possibility that your battery is bad and with the PMA setup that you have it may take a lot of kicks to charge the battery up sufficiently to power the ignition. Be sure your headlight is off when kicking as the headlight will draw the battery down below the required voltage for the ignition. As suggested before, get a known good full size fully charged battery to power the ignition as a test. The PAMCO ignition, like all ignitions has to have power to work. The standard PAMCO will work down to 6 Volts but the E-Advancer works down to about 8 Volts. You may see that voltage when you measure the battery with no load, but it may not be there with the ignition turned on when you kick it. The E-Advancer draws only .010 Amps so just turning on the ignition will not draw the battery down so again you may think you have enough voltage but as soon as you kick it, the coil gets turned on and that is where the battery voltage may drop below 8 Volts.

yeah i usually turn the light off to start it. the battery is literally brand new, but ill try a different one. what would be considered full size? i will also try the rectifier test as well.

 

[ninskrillz]

Ok so I checked the advance cap and it was properly secure. Unplugged the power from the alternator to the reg/rec and it seems like it made a big difference in the ease of starting problem. I was giving it half assed kicks and it was still starting, something that would cause big coughs of smoke if the alternator is plugged in. Also if the bike didn't start, the amount of smoke that comes out is significantly less if at all. What's the next thing to test? Reg/rec and alternator? Guidance necessary I've never had to test these parts before.