Ninja EX500 carbs on an XS650?

[christopher9]

I just opened up my EX carbs and I have clip type needles in there. I was expecting to find nail head type needles, I was planning on re using the "button" off the stock needles. I can't see any identifying marks on the needles that were in the carb. How can I determine which needles I have. I have new needles and jets on the way in the mail, THANK YOU very much Weekendrider.

 

[troopthrowback]

I'll trade you my nailhead needles for your clips and needles. Any shims with those clips?

 

[christopher9]

Yes there are some shims. How can I identify the needles I have?

 

[christopher9]

And, are the carbs from a VN500 Vulcan the same as the EX? I read on chop cult that the EN450, EX500 and the VN500 are all the same motors, so would the carbs all be the same fit? I know this isn't a Kawasaki site, but I thought someone may have come across this info while exploring this swap.

 

[troopthrowback]

I don't have the answer. I also wary of the tech info on cc

 

[scabber]

9 If the needles are unstamped hard to tell. You could measure the diameter, length and taper and compare to a needle chart. It might get you in the ballpark. Got any pictures of the carbs.

 

[FB71]

Vulcan uses a smaller carb than Ninja

 

[scabber]

Troopthrowback Nice looking bike. The carbs working good with a 2 into exhaust is nice to know.

 

[troopthrowback]

I'll dial my float levels and get back to you the complete verdict... Thanks for not looking too closely!

 

[christopher9]

I will bring them to work tomorrow and measure them. I'm going to try to post some pics in a min. I'm a bit of a techno peasant.

 

[scabber]

I would check the carb spacing to see if is the same as the 650.

 

[christopher9]

some pics of what I have. The inside was pretty dirty, I have 140 mains and 35 piolets. The needles I am going to measure and try to reference through the Sudco book. I don't think what I thought were shims really are, I think someone tried toset them above the clip maybe to take up some space like the nailheads, donuts, collars or buttons or whatever they are called because they as thick as the clip itself and were paced above the clip. I am happy about the 140's I considered buying some. As for trading needles, thanks for the offer but I'm going to hold on to them.

 

[troopthrowback]

Those look right to me from eyeballing them. Like scanner said, measure the spacing. They look the same as my carb pair off a 99 ex500.

 

[christopher9]

I got the throttle and cables with them. As I understand the cables are too short, I wonder if the Vulcan cables are longer I found out the Vulcan carbs are 32mm mine are 34mm. I'm going to soak everything in Pinesol tonight and throw all of it in the ultrasonic at work tomorrow.

 

[troopthrowback]

Christopher9, what year ex500 are your carbs off? I'm not very familiar with their differences over the years, but it sounds like yours came with main jets quite close to ballpark for the XS application. That can be valuable information to those doing this swap on the future. I we could just figure out those needles you've got... Compare them of you can to the new ones you're getting in. Let is know what you find out.

I've got the JBM angled intake boots, they're very well made though spendy. What are you going to run?

I kept mine loose, fitted the carbs to minutely adjust spacing, then removed carbs to tighten. As others have mentioned the fit is not exact. The boots tend to run the ports about 1mm narrower than the carbs themselves, so what little manufacturing tolerance there is is handy. A little liquid dish soap and a bit of a push and bobs your uncle!

 

[scabber]

They look the same. If spacing is correct they should work.

 

[christopher9]

I believe it was a "98 ninja I got new boots from the yamaha dealer down the street but my old ones look fine ( my 77 came with bs34's ) Judging from the needles I would say someone has already been inside them. I have some GJH needles on the way from member weekendrider, hopefully they will be here in a few days and I can compare.

 

[xs650dreamer]

those needle are probably from a dyno kit or something like that. i work at kawi and i just saw one of those needle on a vulcan 800 had two washers just like yours, to take up the room i guess

 

[troopthrowback]

So after 175 mile jaunt through the Sierras (1200-6700') last weekend I'm on to the next level of tuning woes.

Bike always starts first kick when warm now, idles nicely, crisp throttle response at very low throttle openings 1/8 turn or less. Above that level of throttle (coinciding with approximately 3000 rpm) there is a frequent "pop" when under power. There is no breathe back through the carbs and no true backfire occurring, nor is there any stumble or poor running at closed throttle or on deceleration. The "pop" is when under power whether cruising or under acceleration at over 1/8 turn of throttle all the way up to full throttle as well as from 3000 rpm to redline, sometimes as low as 2800 rpm.

My plugs are dry with no sooty deposits and made me think of slightly lean conditions for needle (mid throttle openings) and main jets (3/4 - full throttle), while my idle jet is clearly spot on (easy starting, no burble or hesitation or popping on deceleration).

Does that sound right? I just want to make sure I'm thinking about it properly. With all that said I've just switched to stock headers and will be fitting some shorty glass packs later this week, and will see how the pipe change affects the tuning as it sits. The construction of a skid plate has made the MAC 2 into 1 an impossibility.

I've got 138 mains and GJH needles with a single shim. 38 idle jet. UNI foam filters.

I am thinking I may need my 140 mains fitted and to do the nailheads for needle enrichening.

Let me know if I'm missing something, please!

 

[pekka]

troopthrowback: But the bike eventually accelerates and takes more rpm? Have you checked ignition timing? And/or spark/charger/battery voltage? In what groove do you have the needle clip (counting from top)? Did you check the fuel level with "clear tube method" after the float adjustment episode?

I have #40 pilot, HKJ needle, #140 main and I think the main is too big. I had a "lean surge" at cruise that was mostly corrected by raising the needles one clip.

Pekka