No clutch response ofter starter gear fix

[ryanhall41]

I typically tend to fix more things than I break but that doesnt seem to be the case in this job.

Since I've had the bike my starter has slipped, It hasnt ever been that bad and hence I havent worried about it but one day after taking about 10 minutes of trying to get it started I decided I would go in and fix it. I ordered the MikesXS kit and followed this fantastic write up by MaxPete:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/build-thread-special-to-cafe-bike.48165/page-14

All went well until I reached the 29mm center clutch nut. Same as in the write up it was torqued on there pretty well so I lowered the bike off the rear wheel stand, popped it in first get and had a buddy press the rear brake lever while I went at it with my 9" Snapon Ratchet. It came free with a pretty nasty sounding crack but I cant imagine I was over torquing it that much with my 9" ratchet. Immediately after, before I even began to unscrew the nut by buddy noticed that my clutch hand control lever was completely limp.

I went ahead and finished the starter gear/wishbone spring fix and upon assembly, still no clutch response out of my hand controls. Went ahead and popped the left side cover off to inspect the clutch push rod which seemed find. Before putting the cover back together I noticed that my clutch cable and everything still works and the actuating base (sorry, dont know the actual name) that the cable attaches to still moved in and out. However when putting the cover back on and looking at the push rod through the cover (my cover is drilled) the actuating base moves when the hand control is pulled but the push rod doesnt. So I adjusted the clutch activation point (in until it hits the push rod and then back out 1/8th turn). I not have response in my hand controls but it's very stiff and the rod still doesnt move so I'm basically just squeezing onto a frozen rod

I dont know if my issue is on the left side of the engine/hand controls, or right side with the clutch assemble. I was due for an oil change while doing this fix and tore my sump plate gasket so will be ordering a new one of those and would really love to order any other replacement parts from MikesXS while I'm at it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

My baby girl pictured below for anyone who cares to see it

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

The inner ball bearing behind the mushroom pushrod may have rolled out. Properly assembled, the pushrod should be protruding 1-15/16" from the face of the pushrod seal. If it protrudes only 1-5/8", then a 5/16" ball is missing.

Same story with the 5/16" ball inside the clutch actuator (worm). Sometimes falls out.

Revisit the tech section, under clutch. Also find the "manuals" thread in there, download one for yours. There's cross-section pics of the clutch and pushrod...

 

[xjwmx]

Hard to picture what it could be. Measure the protruding shaft like 2M says, if that's wrong you might be able to fix it from the left side, seal removed probably. If not, and you're sure the actuator and all is right (check it against pictures), I would go back through the clutch with the diagrams. If it's right it will work... Note the hole in the plate and how it's supposed to line up. That's not the problem here but it's easy to overlook.

 

[ryanhall41]

The pushrod is sitting at 2 3/8" from the face of the push rod seal. And is just over 9.5" in length total in case anyone was wondering. I've had that bearing fall out on me before so I was careful not to lose it this time around but very well could have

Edit...after some simple match and knowing that my old calipers aren't exactly accurate...guess where I found my missing worm bearing at?

 

[ryanhall41]

o got the left side case buttoned up. Push rod at 1 15/16", bearing in worm drive but still no movement out of the push rod.

Guess I'll be going back in on the right side this afternoon

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Hard to tell from your pic, but is the pushrod in backwards? Narrowed end goes into the worm...

 

[ryanhall41]

Hard to tell from your pic, but is the pushrod in backwards? Narrowed end goes into the worm...

I'll add that to my to do list. That shouldn't affect the push rod not moving though right? I'm assuming I have a problem with the clutch assembly

Also, while I'm at it. How important are the clutch hub cush springs? I have one that is broken but dont know if that warrants buying the whole kit or a new hub or if it's not that big of an issue

 

[ryanhall41]

I'll post another thread if I need to but hoping someone in here can answer this question for me. On my bike the gear that covers the 4th starter gear has the split bushing as expected but not the retaining c-clip that goes over that. When I took the right side cover off a washer fell out that fits well there but otherwise there is no C-clip. The split bushing fit's in a grove that I would assume the retaining clip is supposed to go in but there is no way that I can fit both of them in there. I'll take a pic this evening but the retaining clip is the one on the far right of this starter disassembly pic (not the wishbone spring) and to my knowledge it sits on the gear with the red arrow pointing to it to retain that split bushing in place

 

[weekendrider]

The washer over the split washer should be cupped. That is what holds it in place. The snap ring holds the cupped washer in place.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

get a manual ! and follow the exploded views of the parts in question ...doing it just by mechanical knowledge isn't good enough because pieces get left out.... you must have a road map of parts and their order for assembly .... i'm not Ragging on ya man, I've done this myself ! you need to see the order of these things !.....
the clutch is especially vulnerable of being assembled incorrectly....
to answer your question about a broken clutch spring , if you have another clutch spring put it in there and take the broken one out.
they should All be replaced with new springs however..... but you can get it going again by just replacing the broken spring.
I can't for the life of me think of what it might be that is stopping the spring base(pressure plate) from moving out ...as it's only held in by the spring tension.... however if the clutch basket base is not down far enough ( very possable ) then the push rod isn't pushing on the pressure plate at all.... so it's my guess the washers Under the clutch basket are not in the proper order and NOT seated properly in their places
they can and do get miss-aligned upon assembly and that buggers up the washers ! they need to be flat and smoothe for the bushing to ride on
and the bearing between them to work right....
when I assembled my clutch for the first time I thought I had it all in there right but it wasn't.... my clutch wouldn't work either
come to find out the bushing wasn't sitting flush with the basket housing the way it should be....
assemble the shims bearing and bushing first get that right and then slide on the basket and make sure the last shim didn't move on you while doing that last step.... then finish it up ....
.... hope that helps
Bob.....

 

[650Skull]

No manual or parts manual has the correct parts file showing the clutch parts.......there is a washer left out of the file...There is 1 proper parts file showing the correct washers, but the baskets and plates did have 3 changes over the years so even the correct clutch file, showing the correct washers, may not be the basket and plates for your situation......Confused
Correct basket washer sequence.

So no............. manuals are a guide only and there are some mistakes/differences between both Clymer and Haynes.....Although it is important to have a Manual at hand when working on the bike, ask on here as well if your unsure of, or if something doesn't seem right..........be cautious on all advice given, and keep doing search's to corroborate advice given........

 

[ryanhall41]

Update:

Thank you 650Skull for that color coded image. I completely took everything apart and reassembled, not sure what exactly i did differently this time around but all seems to work great. I've ridded several times since the fix.

It seems one of the previous owners lost the snap ring and original washer that held in place that split bushing and just put another flat washer in it's place. I made a new conical washer and snap ring and as far as the starter gear issues I originally went in for that also works great after the mikesxs kit. I was going to try and just clean up the original gear but the teeth were pretty well rounded.

now to just figure out if I have black spark plugs due to poor fuel mixture levels, weak coils/spark, or something else entirely. I oil in it was pretty well done so I was hoping that would help and it was a little but not entirely. I ride this bike to and from campus (5ish miles) and not much HW driving. I run exclusively super or premier fuel and I'm a light guy (160lbs +/-) so I'm thinking about going to a hotter spark plug and starting from there.

 

[MaxPete]

Hi RH41 - I seem to have missed this entire thread until just now. Glad you’ve gotten the bike back together.

One thing is for sure - there are a lot of little spacers, washers, clips and doohickeys in an XS650 clutch assembly and missing any of them will result in a dead clutch. That coloured chart from Skull is really valuable - but there is no replacement for VERY careful disassembly and reassembly of this system.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[5twins]

If you're starting the bike cold with the choke, that will blacken the plugs rather quickly and a 5 mile ride may not be enough to burn them clean again.