PAMCO + Stock Dual Output Coil

PHeller

Erie, PA
Messages
410
Reaction score
1
Points
16
Location
Erie, PA
I had a dual output coil from a 83' laying around that I used on my PAMCO setup.

Bike starts and runs fine on it.

I know that the high output coils can be damaged if not connected to a spark plug, but is that because they are dual output, or because they are higher output?

Can I unplug the spark plugs for dead-cylinder carb sync with the stock dual output coil and without worry of damage?
 
Can I unplug the spark plugs for dead-cylinder carb sync with the stock dual output coil and without worry of damage?

I wouldn't risk it. Even stock electronic ignition coils are higher output than stock points coils.

Get an extra spark plug, stick it in the plug wire and ground it to the engine to be safe.
 
PHeller,

On page 150 of the Haynes manual:

"On no account run the engine with the sparking plug cap(s) removed. Due to the high voltage, it is possible to damage the internal insulation of the secondary coil."

Haynes is referring to the stock TCI, so this problem is not just associated with PAMCO but is a potential problem with any high performance dual out put coil. Dual output coils do not have an internal ground reference. The secondary windings are floating but insulated from the primary winding and the core by a very thin insulating material. Under normal use, the fact that the spark plugs are grounded is incidental. The current exits the negative spark plug wire terminal, to that spark plug, through the engine head, over to the other spark plug and back to the positive spark plug wire terminal on the coil.

If you remove the wire from, say, the positive spark plug, then the path is from the negative spark plug terminal, to the spark plug, to the engine head and then to the core of the coil or through the ignition system through the thin insulation and back to the positive spark plug coil winding. We are talking about a very high voltage here, so as it jumps from the grounded core of the coil to the windings the voltage and current can burn a hole in the insulation which can become carbonized and effectively short out the coil.

Some coils, like the 17-6903 "Ultimate coil" are more forgiving of this condition because they have better quality internal insulation which basically just acts like a capacitor to allow the current to pass through non destructively.


This video also shows that if you do disconnect one spark plug, the other plug produces a very weak spark which can lead to an incorrect idle setting because the cylinder is not burning the mixture completely so when you finish with the syncing and reconnect the spark plug you may not get the results you expected.

However, the recommendation is still to not remove one spark plug wire. If you have vacuum barbs on the carb holders, then you can kill a cylinder by simply removing the hose or blind plug which has the effect of making the mixture so lean that the cylinder stops working, allowing you to set the other cylinder to the target idle speed just like you would by disconnecting a plug. In fact, the vacuum barb method is easier and more convenient allowing you to alternatively kill one and then the other cylinder to see if they are balanced.
 
Whoa, didn't know about the vacuum port trick.

I just recently got the PAMCO, and had the bike running for the first time with that setup yesterday, so I haven't tried timing it or syncing it at all.

Very good information to have moving forward.

Posted via Mobile
 
Just to clarify:

When doing a compression test, if I leave the plug attached the wires, but not grounded, is this just as hard on the coil as if the plugs were not on the wires?

So, if I do a compression test, I should unplug the coil completely?

Posted via Mobile
 
Just to clarify:

When doing a compression test, if I leave the plug attached the wires, but not grounded, is this just as hard on the coil as if the plugs were not on the wires?

So, if I do a compression test, I should unplug the coil completely?

Posted via Mobile


On some models you can just turn off the kill switch and the starter motor will still work. If not, then disconnecting the coil would be a good idea.

And, yes, of course, If the wire is connected to the plug but the plug is not grounded then that is the same as a loose wire not connected to anything.
 
For testing compression, leave the key off and use the kick start.
Or get a 18 inch or longer uncovered copper wire. Like the ground wire in a piece of house wiring. Wrap a loop in both ends so it grips the threads on the plug snugly.
Run the wire across the top of the engine, put a plug in each end. Now you can safely use the starter.
On a dual output coil, it uses the engine to complete the circuit. The copper wire takes the place of the engine in the circuit while both plugs are out. You can also test the spark of both plugs at the same time with this wire.
Leo
 
Ok, so hopefully I didn't kill my coil by kick starting for a compression test with the plugs (attached to wires) removed, but not grounded to the engine...

Posted via Mobile
 
When you do a compression test via the kick starter, you don't turn the key on. No key on, no power, no way to damage the coils.
 
Back
Top