turner
XS650 Member
Sorry if I still had the bike I would send everything you need. But someone wanted what was left sold it two days after I shipped wheels to you .
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Pentagram/Star Wheels: My rebuild and How-To thread
- Thread starter scott s
- Start date
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- Tags
- build how to restoration wheels
scott s
XS650 Guru
No problem. I can figure this all out, no doubt. Sometimes, just seeing a picture of what I need is helpful.
The more I look at the 500 torque arm, I'm not sure that it's longer, just positioned farther back on the swing arm. I bet I can make an extension or even a completely new arm, but is there a benefit to having the caliper upright?
The more I look at the 500 torque arm, I'm not sure that it's longer, just positioned farther back on the swing arm. I bet I can make an extension or even a completely new arm, but is there a benefit to having the caliper upright?
turner
XS650 Member
You could cut off and move the mounting point on the swing arm and keep your original arm.. Just a thought
XSFazz
XS650 Addict
So pardon if I missed it, I went back and read through the thread, but these wheels are nowhere near a "plug and play" affair, right? I have a disc front and rear, R6 calipers all around with custom brackets made, dual disc in front.
Funny, I found a couple people selling fronts, but no rears. I wanted to do 18" mags front and rear on my bike and these wheels would be great if I could source them and mount them, but I don't want to do any modifications to my frame or swingarm to fit them, so if that's the case I will probably pursue another route.
Thanks for this thread, it's incredibly informational!
Funny, I found a couple people selling fronts, but no rears. I wanted to do 18" mags front and rear on my bike and these wheels would be great if I could source them and mount them, but I don't want to do any modifications to my frame or swingarm to fit them, so if that's the case I will probably pursue another route.
Thanks for this thread, it's incredibly informational!
scott s
XS650 Guru
Definitely not plug and play, but everything I'm doing is reversible. I've done no frame mods, other than drill a couple of holes in the passenger peg mount for the master cylinder. If you have rear disc already, you wouldn't even have to do that.
scott s
XS650 Guru
So, you know how at the bottom of each thread are links to similar threads? I was scrolling through those and saw these pics another member posted. I messaged him, but he was last active here about two years ago.
Anyway, the pic that shows the caliper is dark and doesn't really reveal much. However, in the pic that shows the LH side, you can see the speedo drive and it sure doesn't look to me like it's up against the fork, does it?
I'm just really curious how these wheels were centered and mounted to make use of the caliper and speedo drive.
Tomorrow, we plan on finishing up the spacer for the rear wheel and making a new torque arm so that the caliper is mounted per all the pics I've seen.
I had to order a clevis/rod end. When that gets here we'll bleed the rear brakes.
Luckily, I have a spare front Pentagram wheel with no bearings. Maybe we can use that do determine the center of the wheel in relation to the center of the bike/forks. We'll get to the front as soon as we're done with the rear.
Anyway, the pic that shows the caliper is dark and doesn't really reveal much. However, in the pic that shows the LH side, you can see the speedo drive and it sure doesn't look to me like it's up against the fork, does it?
I'm just really curious how these wheels were centered and mounted to make use of the caliper and speedo drive.
Tomorrow, we plan on finishing up the spacer for the rear wheel and making a new torque arm so that the caliper is mounted per all the pics I've seen.
I had to order a clevis/rod end. When that gets here we'll bleed the rear brakes.
Luckily, I have a spare front Pentagram wheel with no bearings. Maybe we can use that do determine the center of the wheel in relation to the center of the bike/forks. We'll get to the front as soon as we're done with the rear.
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
Scott,
Not all bikes have that tab to keep the speedo gear from rotating. It is held tight by the axle so I don't think it is going to readily rotate. Perhaps all you need is a spacer on each side.
Also, the part number for the speedo gear (341-25190-01-00) is the same for a '75 XS500 and XS650 but the drawing depicted a standard spoke type wheel.
Not all bikes have that tab to keep the speedo gear from rotating. It is held tight by the axle so I don't think it is going to readily rotate. Perhaps all you need is a spacer on each side.
Also, the part number for the speedo gear (341-25190-01-00) is the same for a '75 XS500 and XS650 but the drawing depicted a standard spoke type wheel.
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XSFazz
XS650 Addict
I found someone selling a set - he says he has a 19" front and 18" rear, both disc. I thought these were 18" front and rear?
Hoping this is a legit lead because that picture of your bike really sold me on these Scott.
Hoping this is a legit lead because that picture of your bike really sold me on these Scott.
scott s
XS650 Guru
Yes, I had found that out about the speedo drive. I have a CB550/750 axle and speedo drive somewhere. I'll take a look.....you may be right about not needing that tab. That would make things much easier.
Nope, 19" front, 18" rear. Be sure you get ALL spacers, brackets, etc., that he has.
XSFazz
XS650 Addict
He has bearings, axles and spacers with them.
Waiting on pics before I get my hopes up. After speaking with him on the phone he sounds like a really nice guy, older gentleman and an original XS owner from the 70s!
Waiting on pics before I get my hopes up. After speaking with him on the phone he sounds like a really nice guy, older gentleman and an original XS owner from the 70s!
scott s
XS650 Guru
Please share pics of the spacers. Maybe measurements. And see if there's anything for the caliper.
Better yet, if he still has them mounted on the bike, ask him to take pics.
Better yet, if he still has them mounted on the bike, ask him to take pics.
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scott s
XS650 Guru
I wish I had a big update for you all, but between work and just figuring out the spacers and how to center the wheels, not a whole lot has gotten done. At least, not a whole lot to show.
I did hear from someone who has an XS650 that's been in their family for a while and it has a set of these wheels. He sent me some pics of the spacers and, while everything looks familiar, it's all slightly different than what I have.
This really makes me wonder if the wheels that I have, from an XS500, have a different offset or hub center than wheels for an XS650?
Here's the text I received:
"The front wheel appears to be a bolt on and I asked my brother in law if he remembered any issues with the front wheel and he didn't.
The rear wheel right hand spacer needed to be cut for the new brake caliper. The long lost instructions spelled out how much, etc."
His set "was purchased in 1974 and for a 1974 Yamaha 650. The bike has been in my family since it was new. However, the wheels have never been on the street, just the tires mounted and they were put on the bike to check fit, the "then" owner thought the master cylinder mount looked like crap and they were taken off. That was the last time the wheels or bike was touched until I retrieved them from a warehouse in 1997."
As you can see, the tach drive is STILL not as far over as on a stock wheel, but the spacing seems closer than what I have. Also notice, there's some sort of bracket for the caliper. I've requested more pics of this and the actual caliper mounting.
The rear wheel is using the stock spacer on the sprocket side. That simply wouldn't work in my case, at least with the parts I have.
And, if I understand him correctly, the spacer on this side hasn't been cut yet.
I did hear from someone who has an XS650 that's been in their family for a while and it has a set of these wheels. He sent me some pics of the spacers and, while everything looks familiar, it's all slightly different than what I have.
This really makes me wonder if the wheels that I have, from an XS500, have a different offset or hub center than wheels for an XS650?
Here's the text I received:
"The front wheel appears to be a bolt on and I asked my brother in law if he remembered any issues with the front wheel and he didn't.
The rear wheel right hand spacer needed to be cut for the new brake caliper. The long lost instructions spelled out how much, etc."
His set "was purchased in 1974 and for a 1974 Yamaha 650. The bike has been in my family since it was new. However, the wheels have never been on the street, just the tires mounted and they were put on the bike to check fit, the "then" owner thought the master cylinder mount looked like crap and they were taken off. That was the last time the wheels or bike was touched until I retrieved them from a warehouse in 1997."
As you can see, the tach drive is STILL not as far over as on a stock wheel, but the spacing seems closer than what I have. Also notice, there's some sort of bracket for the caliper. I've requested more pics of this and the actual caliper mounting.
The rear wheel is using the stock spacer on the sprocket side. That simply wouldn't work in my case, at least with the parts I have.
And, if I understand him correctly, the spacer on this side hasn't been cut yet.
scott s
XS650 Guru
While the wheels would have "bolted right up", both wheels were off center on the bike. The rear wheel was to the left and the front wheel to the right.
We cut some stock spacers and centered the rear wheel. I've yet to check chain alignment. I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that it'll be OK.
Here's the strange assortment of spacers we ended up with for the rear wheel, minus the caliper hanger. It's on the bench getting a replacement caliper mounted, as it's pretty much impossible to change the caliper....or the pads....with it mounted on the bike.
We cut some stock spacers and centered the rear wheel. I've yet to check chain alignment. I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that it'll be OK.
Here's the strange assortment of spacers we ended up with for the rear wheel, minus the caliper hanger. It's on the bench getting a replacement caliper mounted, as it's pretty much impossible to change the caliper....or the pads....with it mounted on the bike.
scott s
XS650 Guru
Here are a couple more pictures I was sent of the "family bike". The caliper hanger is identical.
The master cylinder bracket and hard lines seem different. Maybe there was[/B a different kit for 500's and 650's?
I'm actually having a hard time visualizing how this would be mounted. The master is upright in the pic, but I can't quite make sense of the lines/hoses. This all just adds to the mystery of these wheels.
I know these wheels pop up from time to time (rarely), yet I almost never see them with spacers, caliper holder, master cylinder, etc. I can only suggest that unless you have STRONG fabrication skills, be forewarned if you buy an incomplete set!
Man, I wish someone would stumble across some literature somewhere; a sales brochure, installation instructions....something!
The master cylinder bracket and hard lines seem different. Maybe there was[/B a different kit for 500's and 650's?
I'm actually having a hard time visualizing how this would be mounted. The master is upright in the pic, but I can't quite make sense of the lines/hoses. This all just adds to the mystery of these wheels.
I know these wheels pop up from time to time (rarely), yet I almost never see them with spacers, caliper holder, master cylinder, etc. I can only suggest that unless you have STRONG fabrication skills, be forewarned if you buy an incomplete set!
Man, I wish someone would stumble across some literature somewhere; a sales brochure, installation instructions....something!
You mentioned a contacting previous poster, did he reply?
If it is the thread I'm thinking of, he could have provided measurements.
If it is the thread I'm thinking of, he could have provided measurements.
XSFazz
XS650 Addict
Scott,
I know this doesn't help you, but the older gentleman I've been speaking with sent me a couple of pics from 1977, he bought the bike new AND the mags new and says he has all the paperwork with them. They were a direct fit from what he told me and from what he recalls. I am hoping to get more pictures from him shortly. Hopefully this will close some gaps?
Here's a couple pics of his cool custom tracker from '77 that he has sitting in storage. I was going to just buy the wheels / brakes but I may buy the whole bike.
Edit: I'm going to call him in a bit. Any questions you want me to ask him specifically?
I know this doesn't help you, but the older gentleman I've been speaking with sent me a couple of pics from 1977, he bought the bike new AND the mags new and says he has all the paperwork with them. They were a direct fit from what he told me and from what he recalls. I am hoping to get more pictures from him shortly. Hopefully this will close some gaps?
Here's a couple pics of his cool custom tracker from '77 that he has sitting in storage. I was going to just buy the wheels / brakes but I may buy the whole bike.
Edit: I'm going to call him in a bit. Any questions you want me to ask him specifically?
deadchef
xsbobblehead
scott s
XS650 Guru
If you bolt up the front wheel, it's off center to the right by 8-10 mm. There's just no getting around that.
I'd like to know if his wheels are centered and if there's are spacers on the axle or the caliper.
Detailed pics of all spacers on both sides of the wheels would be great. And I'd love to see the instructions.
I'm beginning to think there may have been different wheels for the 500 and 650.
Ask him if there were different wheels or offsets for the XS500, 650 and 750?
I'd like to know if his wheels are centered and if there's are spacers on the axle or the caliper.
Detailed pics of all spacers on both sides of the wheels would be great. And I'd love to see the instructions.
I'm beginning to think there may have been different wheels for the 500 and 650.
Ask him if there were different wheels or offsets for the XS500, 650 and 750?
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scott s
XS650 Guru
Other than the guys who have posted on this thread and someone from DTT that I've gotten some info from, nope...nada...zip..
There's probably more information, and questions, about these wheels in this thread than on the rest of the internet!
scott s
XS650 Guru
Just thinking out loud here...
The wheels I have come off a '75 XS500B. The front wheel uses the same spacers, bearings, covers, etc., as the '75 XS650B. About the only differences are the rotor diameter and the actual axle.
So....maybe the hub is smaller on the XS500? But, no....if that were the case, then the sapcer/bearing stack would be different. EVERYTHING between the dust seals and bearings, speedo drive, etc. is identical. So that means it should be a direct swap.
But it's not.
Then I thought about the fork brace I'm running. Maybe the brace is spreading the forks too far apart and causing fitment issues down at the axle?
Only, that's the same brace I used on a previous build.....or, wait! Was it?!
Looking back at the pictures on my computer, I see that I did in fact NOT have a brace on that bike, which also had 34mm forks.
So, I go to MikesXS and see that the brace is listed for '77-84. In other words, for 35mm forks. Is the actual spacing between the 34mm and 35mm forks wider? Is it possible that my front fitment issues are because of the fork brace?!
But would that explain the wheel being off center?
The wheels I have come off a '75 XS500B. The front wheel uses the same spacers, bearings, covers, etc., as the '75 XS650B. About the only differences are the rotor diameter and the actual axle.
So....maybe the hub is smaller on the XS500? But, no....if that were the case, then the sapcer/bearing stack would be different. EVERYTHING between the dust seals and bearings, speedo drive, etc. is identical. So that means it should be a direct swap.
But it's not.
Then I thought about the fork brace I'm running. Maybe the brace is spreading the forks too far apart and causing fitment issues down at the axle?
Only, that's the same brace I used on a previous build.....or, wait! Was it?!
Looking back at the pictures on my computer, I see that I did in fact NOT have a brace on that bike, which also had 34mm forks.
So, I go to MikesXS and see that the brace is listed for '77-84. In other words, for 35mm forks. Is the actual spacing between the 34mm and 35mm forks wider? Is it possible that my front fitment issues are because of the fork brace?!
But would that explain the wheel being off center?
