Pesky Electric Starter and Boyer Problems

[panman142]

Ok, back to the forums once again after a long night of swearing in the garage...anyways, I just got my *slightly* used Boyer ignition system (courtesy of another member from this site) installed tonight, or what i thought was installed. First issue is with a fully charged battery, i went to hit the electric start button and have nothing. It was intermittent before, but now there is nothing at anytime. Next problem, I went to kick it, hoping that the magic of Boyer would fix all my problems, and still it wont start or even sputter or smoke or anything. I have the timing set per instructions and also wiring hooked up as it called for i believe. Ground is grounded to the old coil bracket and the red wire from the old coil is spliced into the boyer so it has switched power now?? Also, with the key on and the bars turned all the way to the left i hear a clicking sound that apperars to be coming from the boyer system? Noise only happens when bars are hitting the bump stop on the frame. At this point, any help on anything would be great. Hopefully I can finish up this damn project before the entire riding season is gone :/

 

[panman142]

Bumpbumpbump

 

[Brian902]

Your post shows you painted everything. You may have lost some of your grounds.

Using a piece of wire, 4-5' long, bared at each end, run from the negative of the battery to things like your ground side of the coils, to your bare section of your handlebars, things like that. Re-run your test for spark.

Looking for a poor ground.

With a meter you can test the positive side to see if your getting a full 12 volts to each as well. Or a simple test bulb to see if it's getting lit and bright, just a good indicator.

Battery ground to frame should be to a cleaned surface, no paint and tight bolts on battery and grounds.

Handlebars ground through the mounting bolts if your running the original rubber mounts.

Engine grounds through frame mount. One I prefer is to clean one of the triangle rear mounts at the rear on the inside, clean the same frame area and the engine case. Then the triangle mount hides the bare parts but gives you an excellent ground.

Solve the ignition, then solve the starter issue. One thing at a time.

Hope this helps.

 

[panman142]

Okay, will clean up all grounds once I'm home, I've been pondering it all vacation and think its a ground also. Thanks for the info, only question, when you say wire "barred" at each end what do you mean?

 

[Brian902]

I was just referring to a test wire so you could hook it onto the negative battery bolt and have an exposed end to touch against things like the handle bar to test for a ground issue.

Mine has clips on each end to make it easier, but you would not normally have a setup like that. Also has a fuse in the middle of it for testing the positive side. For the times I have it hooked to the positive battery terminal and accidentally touch a ground.

Don't ask how many fuses I've blown. But I've never fried a wire.

 

[panman142]

oh okay, i gotcha. Im about to head out to ye old garage now and see if this thing can finally roar to life. Thanks for the info again! wish me luck 0_0

 

[Tomterrific]

Where are you in Ohio?

Are you sure you have the Boyer wired correctly? I'd recheck the wiring (remember, your bike is negative ground not positve ground like a Brit bike), then follow Brian's idea but with both + and - to bypass all the bike's wires and switches. You will know which way to look depending on whether the bike runs with either the + or - wire.

Also let me add, the handlebars are not grounded to the bike as they are rubber mounted. To get the starter button to work the bars need a ground wire to the hb clamp under the top triple. Easy test by using Brian's jumper wire from teh battery - to the handle bar.

Tom

 

[panman142]

Im about 2 hours from you up in Akron, and im fairly posivtive. The only thing i doubt it the guide said to tap into red wire from the old coil for swtiched power. Are you saying hook the Boyer coil + and - directly to the battery? And that wont damage it or anything?

 

[Brian902]

Try this diagram.

 

[panman142]

okay thanks, yeah i think its definitely wired wrong.... opps

 

[panman142]

alright, this bikes pissin me off. I checked the wiring, fixed it per the two diagrams. tested the terminals with the voltmeter, no power. ground is good, positive side just wasn't getting there. hooked up a positive wire directly from battery and hooked up - terminal directly to ground. Got 12.85 at the terminals was the read out i believe. Also at the battery which is hooked up to the trickle charger is about 12.85 or 13.20 volts. Side note, when i hooked up the jump wires to the coil i got a puff of smoke seem to come out of the top of the engine?? Only on first turn of key after hooking up jump wires... Electric start still isn't working. I sprayed some starter fluid into the carbs and started trying to kick it over. The most i got was a small pop and that was about it after 10 mins of trying to start it.
I'm thinking either

a.) someone was into the wiring before and really messed stuff up and thats causing the problems however things look factory in the harness, no hack job electrical work is noticeable

b.) I should just scrap the original harness altogether and just order the chopper harness from mikesxs and start from scratch which i feel will end up being a huge pita since i would like to keep the turn signals and stuff to that effect and with some searches there aren't really any good write ups on it and I don't want to be that guy that bites the bullet and does a nice write up... although I might anyways

c.) Say to hell with it all and buy a different bike >:[

So if someone could just point me in the right direction i can blindly walk on from there

 

[panman142]

Also, the clicking I described earlier is coming from a relay on the right side, i tried to upload pic, says upload error (typical luck for me)....only when the bike is turned almost full lock to the left

Relay reads as this:

Nippondenso
ND FU257CD
12.8 V 85 c/m
27WX2+3.4W
061300-5511

Rubber holder reads:

Yamaha
3GI- 70 A/C
061300-5511

 

[XSLeo]

I don't know anything about the Boyer, but I may help on the starter.
That relay you are describing sounds like the turn signal flasher. The 27wx2+3.4 is the wattage of the two turn bulbs and indicator light that light up when you use the turn signals. That flasher needs that much wattage to function. Any less and it won't flash.
On the 81 it had several safety devices that won't let the starter run unless you had it in neutral and the clutch lever pulled.
As mentioned the start button and horn button, ground to the switch housings. The right side switch housing grounds to the bars, over to the left side housing where a black wire carries the ground down into the headlight bucket where it plugs into the harness ground.
When you say the starter isn't working is the bike in neutral, clutch lever pulled. And does nothing happen when you push the button?
If nothing then I might suggest getting a spare battery, I have a spare car battery I use for such testing. A pair of jumper cable and a screwdriver with a long shank.
Hook the battery cable to the battery. Hook the ground to a good frame ground. Put the hot jumper cable on the shank of the screw driver. Now you can use the screwdriver to touch certain parts in the starter circuit. Start by peeling back the rubber around the end of the cable on the starter itself. Touch the screwdriver to the stud the cable hooks to. Does this make the starter work? If not clean the connections at the cable to starter. Try again. If no starter function then replace or rebuild the starter.
If it works then move up to where the cable on the starter hooks to the starter relay, Peel back the rubber and touch the screwdriver to the stud on the relay. Does the starter work?
If it works at this point unhook the jumper cables. Now using the jumper cables touch one red clamp to the stud the cable from the starter hooks to, the other red clamp the other stud on the relay. Thus will send the bikes battery power directly to the starter. Does it work? If the starter is working through all these tests you know the problem is not in the starter or any of the connections between the battery and starter.
If at any time during these tests the starter runs but doesn't turn the engine it is in the gears for the starter behind the clutch.
Now that you know the starter is ok you can test the relay function. Un plug the red/white wire at the relay.
Use your meter to check for voltage on the harness side red/white wire, Clutch pulled in, in neutral. It should get battery voltage. If not use a wiring diagram and trace the red/white wire back and see where the voltage gets lost.
Now use a jumper wire to hook battery positive to the red/white wire. This bypasses all the safety devices. Push the start button. Does the starter work? If so your ground path from the starter relay through the start button and such is good. If not it may be a bad connection or dirty contacts in on the start button.
If not then unplug the blue white wire, using a second jumper wire jump the blue/white wire of the relay to ground. With the red/white wire jumped to the battery and the blue/white jumped to ground the starter should work. If not the relay is bad.
If it works you have a good relay.
Leo

 

[peanut]

Hook the battery cable to the battery. Hook the ground to a good frame ground. Put the hot jumper cable on the shank of the screw driver. Now you can use the screwdriver to touch certain parts in the starter circuit. Start by peeling back the rubber around the end of the cable on the starter itself. Touch the screwdriver to the stud the cable hooks to. Does this make the starter work?
Leo

gee leo ,an occasional paragraph wouldn't hurt lol...even I struggled to understand what you mean here

I think what you are saying is

Connect one end of a negative (black) jumper cable to the battery negative terminal and the other end to a clean ground point on the bike frame .

Then connect one end of the positive (red ) jumper cable to the positive battery terminal and the other end to a screwdriver with which you can touch on 12v+ electrical points around the bike to test .basically an electrical arc welder lol

if the PO screws up with this test it could fry his wiring loom ,various components or set fire to the bike .its important to be precise with electrical advice to anyone with little or no electrical experience.

 

[peanut]

Also, the clicking I described earlier is coming from a relay on the right side, i tried to upload pic, says upload error (typical luck for me)....only when the bike is turned almost full lock to the left

it sounds like you might be trying to upload an image that is too large ? if yo right click on the image and look under properties it will tell you the size of the image . You may have to use microsoft paint to reduce the size to something like 1024 on the largest side .

The clicking noise sounds like a relay being activated which may be due to something shorting out or grounding when you turn your handlebars.

I would suggest that you check the wiring carefully inside the headlamp bucket where shorting wires frequently cause non-starting and running issues.

Also check inside your Stop or Kill switch and make sure the switch contacts are not corroded.

 

[panman142]

Okay cool cool cool. All great advice! I will check my headlight wiring when I get back home. All the wiring is kinda temporarily hooked up so that could also be a source of issues.... Anyone have thoughts on re wiring? I wanna keep the electric start and turn signals but I feel like there's a lot of crap I don't really need in the wiring harness...

 

[XSLeo]

My method of testing the starter can't hurt the rest of the electrical system. The only place it puts power is to the starter.
As far as rewiring I like this diagram. It shows a basic points diagram with the later combo reg/rec and TCI in boxes. It shows the starter in the upper right. Just swap boxes around to match what you have. Easy to mod for a Pamco. just add it in after the engine stop switch. A PMA just follow the PMA install instruction.
Leo

 

[panman142]

Or a new harness from mikesxs could be a good move? I feel like that wiring is going to get real complicated real fast

 

[panman142]

Also I don't know if this could be my whole problem right here... My clutch perch was broken so my whole clutch lever and perch is gone so I don't have it held in when trying to start the bike, I didn't see any wiring attached to it so I didn't think it'd make a difference

 

[Brian902]

Panman,

On the picture thing, don't worry about resizing anything, Travis has provided us with that ability to upload any size and he resizes them on this site for you automatically.

Thanks Travis.