Piston seized, Pics inside, what do you think?

Ok well if you can find the acid in OKC let me know where bc I spent almost my entire afternoon attempting to locate some.

Wikipedia said:
Phosphoric acid may be used as a "rust converter", by direct application to rusted iron, steel tools, or surfaces. The phosphoric acid converts reddish-brown iron(III) oxide, Fe2O3 (rust) to black ferric phosphate, FePO4.
"Rust converter" is sometimes a greenish liquid suitable for dipping (in the same sort of acid bath as is used for pickling metal), but it is more often formulated as a gel, commonly called naval jelly.
Click to expand...

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphoric_acid
 
What needs to be done is bring them to a GOOD machinist. He will 'clean' the cylinder's BEFORE you order any pistons or rings. He will inform you of what size you need to get. You cannot tell how deep the rust is into the cylinder walls just by looking, they have to be cleaned up, then measured.Or, you can just get a set of either stock bore or the 750 kit from Mike's. Will probably cost about the same, with you doing the work yourself. The skirts on those pistons are junk. Really deep scratch's.
 
How should I go abt finding a good machinist? I don't have any experience w machine shops at all and I don't know anyone who would have experience w a shop who would do the boring and honing. I went to three different machine shops here in OKC and they each told me they don't do that type of work and recommended a shop to try next. That's how I ended up where I did. The guy at the shop told me to bring in the pistons I will be using and that's how he would get his measurement for boring. Maybe I can ask the guy to take the cylinder walls down until they are clean and then mike them and to let me know where we stand bore-size-wise?

If I'm leaving anything out here let me know:

$140 for both cylinders bored and honed
$108 for two pistons, pins and circlips
$32 for a set of 1 over rings bc Patches is willing to hook me up w the other set of 1 over rings
=
$280

I already have gaskets for everything(I bought the entire gasket set a while back from Mikes)

Factory 650 replacement cylinder and piston kit from Mikes is $439.
 
Yep, I'll get those rings sent out. Please be sure to shoot me your mailing address.

$140 sounds a little pricy for cylinder boring. I get mine done at two shops and they range from 40-50 per cylinder.

I'm doing a 700cc kit in a motor and they are charging me 70 per cylinder because they have to make a lot of passes with the boring machine to get that much material removed out of the cylinder and it takes more time.

I'm betting there are several capesble shops in the OKC area that can do the work for you. The guys at speed shops generally know the best places to go if you have never used anyone for cylinder work before.
 
First, look in your local yellow page's for shop's who have been around for a while. Or, go to the guy's you trust to repair your cage and ask who they use, Like I said, a good machinist will clean up the cylinder's first, to be sure that there is enough left to work with. I would not trust someone who would go blind in there like that. Machining is a fine art, and good one's take extreme pride in their work. I got a shop here that regularly put's out alot of race engine's, has all the latest machinery, and is very reasonably priced. $40 a hole, with torque plates. Christ, I haven't been on Mike's site for quite a while, his prices doubled.
 
Cros, yeah I plan on lapping the valves and replacing seals, I will be sure to check my valves thoroughly once they are out. I was also going to change my cam chain guide but it looks like somebody already did bc the one that was in there looks almost brand new. Anything else I should do while the top end is apart? The thread abt the piston rings is now in my bookmarks, great stuff! Thanks.

Side note, does anybody know a way to get the springs compressed w/out buying the compressor on Mikes? The automotive one I rented won't fit into the space around the springs on XS valve covers.

Patches, I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate the rings, I'll PM you my address. You have been a great guy to deal with and I feel lucky to have bought my bike off of somebody so willing to be of help. I'm gonna start calling around to different speed shops to see if I can source out a reputable shop to do the cylinder work.

Gordon, I might be showing my lack of knowledge here but what do you mean "repair my cage"? Ill be looking around to see if I can find a machinist that know the right steps to take, I appreciate the advice bc otherwise I'd probably just be letting this guy have a go at my cylinders:doh:. And yeah, was reading a thread last night talking abt Mike's prices and the way they have jumped since he sold. This isn't the exact thread I was reading but it looks like this one has all the info on the sell. It was started by PamcoPete.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6331

Thanks a ton for the advice guys. I'll update when I figure something out.
 
Perhaps you need to check for engine rebuilders. "Machine shop" is often for industrial precision metal working and they do not have the specialized engine tools. A big lawnmower snow blower shop will know where to get your type of machine work done. Look in the homemade tools thread for a an easy to make valve spring compressor.
 
A 'cage' is your automobile. No wind in your face, all boxed in like a sardine, no freedom to the outside, caged.On a side note for the valve spring compressor. Snap-On, Matco,Mac, Cornwell all sell a plastic dowel like adapter to reach into tight spot's. They work OK, but I bought Mike's years ago and have used that more often than my Snap-On clamshell. Of course, it was only $30 then. I did try using a short length of PVC pipe to reach into the valve pocket, but it colapsed after 3-4 valves.
 
Haha, cage. No freedom to the outside, LOL.

Abt the compressor, I read abt the home-made c-clamp compressor and I'm just gonna make one of those at work. I already have a couple old junky ones that need a new purpose in life.
 
Since you have it taken apart, I don't see why a normal auto valve spring compressor wouldn;t fit, Problayy borrow one from Autozombies or O'Really's
 
That's what I thought too, so I rented one from Auto Zone but the space around the valve springs is too tight to allow the tool to fit down around the coils of the spring. I could only get it far enough in to grab onto the second coil down from the top which of course wouldn't allow me to compress anywhere near enough to get the keepers out. Now I understand why the XS specific compressor is different from a standard type valve spring compressor.
 
Look at your valve tips and adjusters to see if there is any pitting or wear that would make it difficult or impossible to set valve clearances to spec when you reassemble your motor. Search "elephant foot" adjusters - they replace the stock ones.
 
Rexxis said:
Abt the compressor, I read abt the home-made c-clamp compressor and I'm just gonna make one of those at work. I already have a couple old junky ones that need a new purpose in life.
Click to expand...

Those tend to work the best IMO.

I worked for almost a decade for Pro NHRA teams, and that's the style we always used.
 
So, I found a shop w plenty of know how to do the work on my cylinders.
They build and race drag bikes and also run a shop w all kinds of different styles of bikes coming through the doors. I figure these guys can handle the job.

They told me today that I probably should go 2nd over to be safe bc it looked like 1st over would be cutting it close. Then he started talking to me about running Wiseco pistons and rings. He is telling me to run the Wiseco kit (kit # ck200 or ck201[URL="http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Powersports/YamahaCycleStreetOverbore.pdf" ]See here[/URL]), I'll be in it for abt $600. Mikes 750 kit is going for only $60 more.

Which do you guys think would be money better spent?

I mean I could always just buy the 2nd over pistons and rings from Mike and call it good but for abt $200 more I can get into the Wiseco's..
 
Dude, jump on the new 750 kit for the extra $60. I have had rust pits which looked OK turn MUCH larger as the cylinder is bored. Didn't have the $ for another cylinder so I put it together, it ran fine but smoked. It would be bad to buy pistons, rings etc then find out the cylinder sleeves have to be replaced putting you right back to square 1.
 
Yeah, I'm kinda leaning toward the 750 kit bc I'll end up with a totally new cylinder block that is an improvement over the factory block and no worrying abt cleaning up the cylinders then. I'm wondering though if I'll get noticeably higher power returns from the Wiseco kit or if the 750 kit is gonna get me to abt the same place.
 
The 750 kit will get you where you want to go.And your right, all new cylinder's with added cooling fins will be a rock solid deal. I haven't heared any complaint's on the kits.
 

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