PMA, Pamco, Kickstart only

[Moose12]

This may be a dumb question, but is it possible to run kickstart only with a PMA, and Pamco ignition and no battery or does the pamco require a battery? If it needs a battery at all is it possible to go way smaller on battery to make it able to be hidden easily without big side panels? My understanding is that The battery supplies power to the alternator rotor windings in the stock alternator so it seems that to go kickstart only you'd need a PMA to have the ability to start the engine. Also seems like to have electronic ignition you'd need power from a battery to run the electronics at least until alternator is running and producing power. Wasn't sure about it so I thought I'd throw the question out there. Trying to avoid spending money unneccesarily but I like the stripped down look you can get from going kickstart only. To achieve that, do I need to go with a PMA and keep the points ignition. Also seems like if I need to keep a battery anyway, maybe I may as well keep push button ignition too. Any thoughts? Pics of how you've dealt with this? Thanks!

 

[pamcopete]

Moose12,

You can have a kick start only, no battery, PMA and PAMCO setup if you substitute a large capacitor for the battery. As you kick it to start the engine the PMA produces enough voltage on the capacitor to power the PAMCO.

This is a very popular setup and if you do some searching here on the site you will find numerous examples from other members who have done it.

 

[Moose12]

Thanks Pete! Good to know it's possible! I'll take a look around a bit at how it's done and how it looks!

 

[MrObsidus]

Pete, can you also do this with the stock charging system, pamco high output ignition and capacitor or do you need the PMA?

 

[Austblue]

No MrObsidus, you cannot. There is a wealth of information on this site if you spend the time to search but I can provide a brief response. The stock charging system does not produce the required output until the revs are above idle so you cannot kick the bike over unless you go with a PMA.

 

[Punkskalar]

This should help... YES, you can run batteryless with a PMA, we do it all the time here at Hugh's HandBuilt.. I run almost ALL of my bikes without a battery..

 

[MrObsidus]

No MrObsidus, you cannot. There is a wealth of information on this site if you spend the time to search but I can provide a brief response. The stock charging system does not produce the required output until the revs are above idle so you cannot kick the bike over unless you go with a PMA.

Thanks.

This should help... YES, you can run batteryless with a PMA, we do it all the time here at Hugh's HandBuilt.. I run almost ALL of my bikes without a battery..

Thanks man, sleek little ride there.

 

[XSLeo]

MrObsidous and Austblue. Just to clear up some misconceptions, The XS650 uses a field excited alternator. This means you need a battery to supply needed voltage to power the field coil to excite the stator into creating electricity.
When you turn the key on the reg lets full battery voltage flow through the rotor. This creates the magnetism required to excite the stator.
A PMA being a permanent magnet alternator it has the magnetic field of the permanent magnets in the rotor that excite the stator. It will do this whether you use a battery or not.
A cap doesn't really charge in the sence a battery charges, it does create a load on the output so the regulator won't go nuts and send voltage spikes of up to 20+ volts into the rest of the electrics.
Leo

 

[Austblue]

Thx Leo I knew I didn't know it all so tried to keep it simple but obviously still went beyond my kept knowledge.

 

[Bent13]

OK so I converted to a PMA system with a reg/rect from Hughs, (I do not recall what stator I have, but the rotor is off a banshee.) However I couldn't get spark without a battery charger hooked up (didn't have a battery on hand)

Can someone tell me if somethings wrong with my setup?

 

[pamcopete]

Bent13,

Capacitor? Be careful using just a battery charger to power up the ignition without a battery or capacitor to smooth the output from the charger which is not pure DC but a form of pulsed DC.

 

[XSLeo]

Depending on the charger it can have too high a voltage. some as high as 18-20 volts. They let battery resistance regulate the voltage, Your ignition won't do this. Use a fully charged battery hooked to just your ignition. This will run the engine to test the PMA system.
Leo

 

[The Tin Man]

Moose12,

You can have a kick start only, no battery, PMA and PAMCO setup if you substitute a large capacitor for the battery. As you kick it to start the engine the PMA produces enough voltage on the capacitor to power the PAMCO.

This is a very popular setup and if you do some searching here on the site you will find numerous examples from other members who have done it.

What is a large size?