PMA / Pamco Wiring Sanity Check

[UncleBuck]

I was smart enough to buy my kit from some quality suppliers - I got the ignition from pamcopete, and the PMA conversion from Hugh's Handbuilt. No offense to any other suppliers, I just figure it's fair to say their stuff is good.

Now, I think I've got it wired okay (see attached henscratches), but I'll be damned if I can start it. Admittedly, the battery is only at 11V, but it is fullsize. Admittedly, the gas is stale from last year, but the '84 Nighthawk stated on crappy stale gas, so I figured I'd give it a try.

I'm going to put the battery on a charger and get some fresh high-test gasoline, but I'd like a second set of eyes on my wiring to see if I've done something stupid. There's still plenty else to check (e.g. there could be something mucking up the carbs, etc.) but I'd like to rule out the electrical. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, so I'm double damned by trying to actually do work, let alone electrical work.

Couple comments on the diagram - the battery and the rectifier regulator ground on the same screw, and the pamco gounds elsewhere on the frame. I haven't confirmed there's continuity aon the ground, but I feel pretty good about stuff that threads into the frame. Also, I was pretty careful to check and make sure that the continuity of the red line is accurate to what's sketched. So if it's borked, then it's really borked. Finally, the "y" stuff is from when I was trying to sort out if I had enough of the right connectors from VintageConnections. I don't , but I'm ordering. Lastly, I know I'm a massive nerd for drawing this stuff out, but it has been a long cold winter in Nova Scotia.

Appreciate your feedback.

 

[I am Carbon]

Well I'm no expert but it looks correct to me.
low voltage and old fuel can't help

 

[pamcopete]

UncleBuck,

Looks OK to me as well, so check out the mechanical stuff, like:

1. Are all THREE (3) locating pins in place?
2. Is the PAMCO plate in the recommended position for initial start?
3. Is there gas in the carb bowls, not just the tank?
4. If you have carb vacuum barbs, are they connected to something or capped off?
5. New spark plugs?
6. If the battery is only at 11 Volts, that would preclude using the electric starter as it will not turn the engine over fast enough to start, so did you try kick starting?
7. Using the choke?
8. Tried without using the choke?
9. Your wiring diagram looks OK, but did you verify it by actuall checking for 12 Volts at both the coil and the red wire on the PAMCO?
10. Did you try startling with the PMA unplugged?
11. This should be #3.5, if you have vacuum pet cocks, are they in the prime position?

 

[UncleBuck]

pamcopete, thanks for the detailed feedback.

1. Yes. One on the PAMCO end, two on the mech advance end - learned that one last year.
2. Yes. Midway between either extreme of adjustment. Full disclosure; records show I actually bought a kit from xs650direct (mike's xs in Canada).
3. Yes. But after removing them to inspect, there is some sludge in there. Cleaning is in order.
4. Barbs yes. Capped yes. Cracked caps? Maybe a little.
5. New.. ish? New with the kit. Very little use, but there is some carbon to be cleaned off.
6. Bad advice from an inlaw; the starter is non-functioning after running running running. By necessity, this is now a kick-only machine.
7. Tried choke, yes.
8. Tried no choke, yes.
9. With the battery at 11V, I've got 11V at the coil, and the red line on the PAMCO.
10. No... Is that genuine trouble shooting, or is that dummy-checking? (and as per the diagram, the key was "on" and the kill switch was "on.")
11. Don't have the vacuum style petcocks. Off, on, reserve. Only tried in "on" not "reserve."

At this point, I strongly suspect that the carbs are gunked up, and there enlies the problem. It sounds like miraculously, I got the electrical OK.

 

[pamcopete]

UncleBuck,

#10 is a legitimate question and test. There have been instances of the PMA emitting irregular voltages that can mess up the ignition, not just the PAMCO, but any ignition, so try with the PMA disconnected.

PS: You would have failed Henry Fords prospective engineers interview.

 

[UncleBuck]

Sounds good, pamcopete. I'll try that tonight.

 

[UncleBuck]

Tonight is a funny word.

I tried with both PMA connected and PMA disconnected, and no luck. Battery charged to a snappy 13V (checked, and still 13V at red line on PAMCO).

Anything else I should try electrically?

 

[XSLeo]

Do you have spark at the plugs? There is a test for this with out spinning the engine on the Pamco website.
Leo

 

[UncleBuck]

Took me a minute to find it on the website but I'll try that, thanks. That's a handy way to cheat the circuit board.

 

[UncleBuck]

Aaaaand no spark. Check the plugs and coil next?

 

[UncleBuck]

I'm concerned (without having checked) that I burnt out the high output coil that came with the kit. What's the level of difficulty of using the stock coils with a PMA / PAMCO / kick only bike?

 

[pamcopete]

I'm concerned (without having checked) that I burnt out the high output coil that came with the kit. What's the level of difficulty of using the stock coils with a PMA / PAMCO / kick only bike?

The TCI stock coil works just fine with that setup, but if you have fried the coil that came with the kit, maybe because you left the power on with the engine not running? Then most likely it has fried the PAMCO as well. Here is a test for the coil.

Testing the coil:

1. Using the lowest scale on the meter, measure the resistance between the primary terminals with the wires removed. Should read from 2.5 to 4.5 Ohms.
2. Using the highest scale on the meter, measure between one of the primary terminals and the center core of the coil. Should be infinite resistance. (open)
3. Measure between one of the primary terminals and one of the plug wire terminals. Should be infinite resistance. (open circuit)
4. Measure between one of the plug wire terminals and the core of the coil. Should be infinite resistance (open circuit)
5. Measure from one plug terminal to the other. Should be 15,000 to 20,000 Ohms

Testing the PAMCO

1. Use a voltmeter and check for battery voltage on each of the red/white wires with the key and kill switch are turned on.
2. The dual output coil has to have both spark plug wires connected to a spark plug at all times.
3. To test for spark, connect one of the spark plug wires to a spark plug that is grounded to the engine.

To test for spark without having to turn the engine over, do this procedure:
1. Remove the PAMCO rotor.
2. Remove the locating pin in the advance rod.
3. Reinstall the rotor, but without the pin.
4. Replace the nut holding the rotor on loosely. This will allow you to spin the rotor to produce a spark without having to turn the engine over.
5. Connect one of the spark plug wires to a spark plug that is grounded to the engine, but not installed in the engine.
6. Make sure that the other spark plug wire is connected to a spark plug in the engine.
7. Turn on the ignition switch and the kill switch.
8. Spin the rotor while looking at the gap in the spark plug for a spark.
9. Turn off the kill switch and the ignition switch.

 

[UncleBuck]

I feel silly for asking, but how do I access the core of the coil?

 

[pamcopete]

I feel silly for asking, but how do I access the core of the coil?

The core is the laminated metal in the center of the coil.

 

[UncleBuck]

Oooooooooohhhhhhh man.

Found my problem. pamcopete, the coil checked out okay, so I knew that wasn't the problem. And if I hadn't burnt out the coil, I probably hadn't burnt out the PAMCO.

So I started checking connections. Everything was good until I checked to see if the ground for the PAMCO (black wire) had continuity thru to the negative terminal of the battery.

No, it didn't. It was connected to the frame, and the negative terminal was connected to the battery box... which sits on rubber damn bushings.

So, I connected a line from the battery to the frame, trickled some fuel into the carbs, turned the key, turned the kill...

Gave it a kick, and she shook to life. I cannot tell you how much I missed that sound.

I very much appreciate the help eliminating the things that weren't the problem.