Question about putting front end back together

[sbaugz]

So I am putting my front end back together and have noticed a few things

First off, to my knowledge, my bike was not involved in an accident and i have rebuilt the forks, which appear straight. The triples seem straight too

So here's the problem- when I am sliding the forks up into the triple trees, it seems like I really have to tweak and mildly force the right fork into the top triple when the left one is already in. Then, once I get both forks into the triple and the front wheel bolted on, the front wheel tends to naturally want to sit about 30 degrees off to the left relative to the triples. If I hold handlebars and force the front wheel back in midline, I can then tighten the triples and it seems to stay in place. I just thought it was strange that the front wheel at rest (without the triples tightened) seems to naturally sit way out of midline. Anyone else experience this? The front fender is not on either, so maybe this would have helped keep the forks from twisting out of line? At first I was thinking maybe something was bent but that doesn't seem to be the case for what my naked eye can see.

Thoughts?

 

[angus67]

only thing I can suggest, is put everything back together loose, then tighten it all up. But Sounds like you already tried that.
Maybe put the front fender back on tight, then start tightening everything else.
Your sure your tubes are straight?

 

[sbaugz]

I am pretty sure the tubes are straight from what I can tell. There wasn't any visible damage on front end when I tore the bike down.
I tried spinning the tubes around inside the triples while loose and they don't seem to wobble around as they spin. Any other way to tell if they are straight?

Just to clarify, the wheel and triple are lined up now, but if I were to loosen all the triple nuts it would probably go right back to having the wheel face off left center. Seems like that's it natural resting place when everything is loose.

 

[jd750ace]

Turning the tubes in the triples with about an inch above the upper clamp will tell you if they are bent high. This is done with the front wheel off and the axle out. Rotate the tube. It can turn smooth, or with a slight drag, depending on the condition of your clamps and tubes, but it should be consistient the full rotation. If it goes tight/loose/tight/loose as you turn, something is bent. If one seems bent and the other not, swap sides to verify. If the condition follows the tube, that tube is bad. If either way is unsat, you can pull them out and throw a framer's square on it at 4 places 90 degrees apart, or if it's easy enough, just use the square to begin with, but it won't reveal a bend that is inside the lower leg. To check for that, jack the front, loosely clamp the tubes, and install the axle loosely. Hang a plumb bob off the end of the axle on the side you are checking. Put a piece of tape on the floor beneath the bob, and after it's stable, drop it onto the tape to make an indention. You can do this against the steering stop for better stability. Rotate the tube 90 degrees in the clamps, and drop the bob again. If the lower portion of the tube is straight, the bob should lower to the same impact point each time. If it changes from one location to one 90 to 180 degrees from the start point, the bottom of the leg is bent. Usually a bottom bend is sticky enough to cause the suspenion to pack, and make the seal leak after a bit.

If you have 1 straight tube in a straight set of clamps and lightly tightened, the second should slide right in, nothing but net, as they say.

 

[sbaugz]

Turning the tubes in the triples with about an inch above the upper clamp will tell you if they are bent high. This is done with the front wheel off and the axle out. Rotate the tube. It can turn smooth, or with a slight drag, depending on the condition of your clamps and tubes, but it should be consistient the full rotation. If it goes tight/loose/tight/loose as you turn, something is bent. If one seems bent and the other not, swap sides to verify. If the condition follows the tube, that tube is bad. If either way is unsat, you can pull them out and throw a framer's square on it at 4 places 90 degrees apart, or if it's easy enough, just use the square to begin with, but it won't reveal a bend that is inside the lower leg. To check for that, jack the front, loosely clamp the tubes, and install the axle loosely. Hang a plumb bob off the end of the axle on the side you are checking. Put a piece of tape on the floor beneath the bob, and after it's stable, drop it onto the tape to make an indention. You can do this against the steering stop for better stability. Rotate the tube 90 degrees in the clamps, and drop the bob again. If the lower portion of the tube is straight, the bob should lower to the same impact point each time. If it changes from one location to one 90 to 180 degrees from the start point, the bottom of the leg is bent. Usually a bottom bend is sticky enough to cause the suspenion to pack, and make the seal leak after a bit.

If you have 1 straight tube in a straight set of clamps and lightly tightened, the second should slide right in, nothing but net, as they say.

Thanks for the great advice
Will do what you suggest


I will tell you that with both forks in the triples, neither tube spins very easily inside the triples with everything loosened up. I wonder if its possible to have a bent triple?

 

[sbaugz]

Checked fork tubes with a t square and I also did the trick of spinning them around inside triples and they don't seem bent. The only thing I notice is that it's still a little tough getting the fork tube inside the top right triple- and that is true for both forks when I swapped right fork for left fork. I wonder if there's a little bend in my triple although that seems unlikely to me?
Needless to say, assuming there is no obvious bend somewhere, is it ok to manually line up front wheel with triple and tighten everything down without worrying to much about what happens to alignment when it's loose?

 

[jd750ace]

Have you tried loosening the steering stem, installing the tubes loosely at first, tighten the lower clamp then the stem nut? Do that and see if you still have the issue on the right side. Not sure what would tweak one side of the clamp, unless maybe it was under torqued or over torqued at one time? Since it wants to pull right when tightened, and the right is the problematic side to slide a tube in, it is highly suspect. If you have something round and pretty much guaranteed straight (I'm thinking a good 12 inch extension or something) you can put it through the right side with the left torqued down, and roll it around the inside and see if the sides of the clamp that grab the tube are flat against your round object, or if gaps show,at the bearing surface. Sure sounds like clamp issues. Did you check your steering stops and make sure one is not knocked off or bent, indicating it has been down?
Hope this helps.

 

[sbaugz]

Have you tried loosening the steering stem, installing the tubes loosely at first, tighten the lower clamp then the stem nut? Do that and see if you still have the issue on the right side. Not sure what would tweak one side of the clamp, unless maybe it was under torqued or over torqued at one time? Since it wants to pull right when tightened, and the right is the problematic side to slide a tube in, it is highly suspect. If you have something round and pretty much guaranteed straight (I'm thinking a good 12 inch extension or something) you can put it through the right side with the left torqued down, and roll it around the inside and see if the sides of the clamp that grab the tube are flat against your round object, or if gaps show,at the bearing surface. Sure sounds like clamp issues. Did you check your steering stops and make sure one is not knocked off or bent, indicating it has been down?
Hope this helps.

More good advice- will try and loosen steering stem nut to see if that changes anything. To me, it seems if anything is bent it's got to be the triple because the right top triple does the same thing whether I slide the right or left fork inside. So if it is warped or bent, would it still be okay to use as long as I can get wheel and triple lined up with some persuasion and then tightened down so it holds?
I'm getting Gordon Scott's fork brace which should help too.

I don't suppose powder coating the triples could have warped them under the high oven temps?
No sign of damage on the steering stops either

 

[Jrluz14]

I don't suppose powder coating the triples could have warped them under the high oven temps?

Highly unlikely, powder coat ovens are usually only around 350 degrees, that's not enough up effect aluminum or steel.

 

[retiredgentleman]

The lower steering yoke is easily bent when there is a collision with an immovable object. If you set the yoke onto a piece of glass, you will be able to see if the yoke is warped. If it is warped, they can be straightened, because they are steel,not cast iron.

 

[sbaugz]

Now we are on to something
When I lay the bottom yoke on my presumed flat granite countertop, there is a very subtle little wobble to it indicating its probably got a little warp to it. Is that a concern? Should I pick up a new one? The warp is pretty subtle so I am not even sure how I would go about straightening it out since I wouldn't even know which way to twist. As I mentioned in the posts above, I can correct the alignment before I tighten all the triple bolts down so maybe this is a non-issue?

 

[pamcopete]

It is difficult to see if the triples are bent. They only have to out a small amount to make a big difference in the alignment. Here is a picture of a lower triple from my '81/H after an accident. Hardly noticeable unless you clamp it down on a flat surface. This bike also wanted to turn before I took it apart and replaced the triples.

Same deal with the forks. You have to take them apart and roll the inner tube part on a flat surface to see if they are bent and it only takes a very small amount of bending to throw the alignment out. If there is a very small bend in the fork tubes, you can rotate the tube in the triple clamps to move the bend from the for and aft position to the left and right position to eliminate the misalignment. I did that in my '78/E a few years ago after another accident and it worked just fine.

 

[RpNSht]

After having it lowered and rebuilt I had a similar issues with my original front end-very tight and difficult to slide into triple trees. After replacing uppers it help but tire sat at an angle. Ended up needing to replace lowers and once I did all problems disappeared. My triple trees were not tweaked

I'd recommend investigating your lowers

Originally I couldn't move my forks if I wanted to. now with everything replaced they are like a dream come true

 

[retiredgentleman]

Now we are on to something
When I lay the bottom yoke on my presumed flat granite countertop, there is a very subtle little wobble to it indicating its probably got a little warp to it. Is that a concern? Should I pick up a new one? The warp is pretty subtle so I am not even sure how I would go about straightening it out since I wouldn't even know which way to twist. As I mentioned in the posts above, I can correct the alignment before I tighten all the triple bolts down so maybe this is a non-issue?

My lower yoke was warped, similar to the picture shown by Pamcopete. Because the yoke is steel, it can be re-twisted back to correct the alinement. I re-clamped the fork tubes back into the yoke, and then used a piece of 2X4 wood to twist the fork tubes. I used a piece of glass to check when it was true. I found it easy to do, and it made my front end re-aline.

Only you can decide if you have the skill to re-twist it back to normal. You can try it, and if you don't succeed, then purchase another from the classified (better ask if the seller has checked if its true).

 

[XSLeo]

When the front wheel goes over bumps the wheel tends to move more straight up than back along the line of the forks. Over the years this tends to bend the forks up.
Without the front wheel on loosen the clamp bolts on the trees. Slip the front axle back in. Mount a dial indicator of the floor touching the fork lower, Now turn the fork tube in the trees and watch the dial. A straight tube won't show much movement, A bent tube will.
Leo

 

[sbaugz]

Just a follow up to this post
I received a new lower triple today in mail (thanks DogBunny) and it completely solved my front end problems. The lower triple was bent and was causing my front end to be all out of alignment. The new one worked like a charm.

One additional question. My bent triple was a 1981. I don't really know what year this new one is but it's slightly different. Right in the middle of the steel tube that goes through the neck, there is a notch cut out of the tube. My 1981 doesn't have this. Any ideas what this was for?

 

[pamcopete]

sbaugz,

I think that is for the steering lock. The '81 has it integral with the ignition key. Earlier models it is separate and integral with the neck on the left side.

 

[XSLeo]

Correct, the notch in the stem is what the key lock on the neck engaged to lock the forks.
On my 75 when I put on a 35 mm 79 forks I lost my fork lock. The 79 didn't have the notch in the stem, so no place for the lock to engage.
Leo

 

[pamcopete]

Well, when I replaced both the upper and lower triple on my '81/H after my wreck, I got the new ones on Ebay and they were for a '79 model. It wasn't until after I had installed them that I realized that there was no place in the upper triple for the ignition switch! Not wanting to start all over again, I made the best of it by moving the ignition switch to the lower left side ala Honda and installed an oil pressure gage to take up the space where the ignition switch used to go.

I never used the steering lock anyway and why have the ignition switch right in front of you after you get the engine running?