Question about tiny magnetic "dust" in upper filter...

[TeeCat]

Hi, all...

Reading some other like threads prompted me to go out and check my upper filter (Mike's external oil cooler), which I installed sometime early last season, I believe. It may be relevant to note that my bike has just under 19k miles, but only 1,0000 are mine, over the last four years. I also replaced the sump filter around the same time. As I recall, I don't think the old one was torn, but did not appear to contain any plastic or obvious metal. I have changed the oil about six times in 1,000 miles, for various reasons that mainly have to do with viscosity/grade/brand experimentation and maintenance/repairs. I am between oil changes at present.

This evening, I was pleased to find that my upper filter contained no apparent large debris of any kind, either plastic or metal. The paper filter was merely dark from oil since I installed the kit.

When I put the filter in a kerosene bath, though, I noticed some dark sediment - almost powdery in nature - at the bottom of the white plastic container I used. I expected some sediment, but my little telescopic magnet (about the diameter of a pencil eraser) indicated that the sediment is magnetic. There was only enough to cover the very top flat portion of the magnet.

Now, I know that filters are there to catch debris, obviously. But is this sort of metal dust a normal by-product of a largely iron/steel/alloy machine in the course of operation over time? I'm thinking clutch plate wear and tranny gear wear, perhaps. I would think that mating/moving steel/iron/alloy parts = wear = magnetic dust. I suppose that the fact there are magnets on the tops of the oil plugs sort of answers that question, but I suppose I never actually cleaned a filter before now... I always just replaced them in cars, etc. Hence, that question. I was just a little taken back.

Also, can I assume that the relative cleanliness of the top filter suggests that the bottom one is doing its job, and that the apparent absence of visible aluminum or plastic in the upper filter means that my chain guide is likely alright? You may recall that I am keeping at ear on a "whine" that does not appear to be getting any worse.

Anyway, thanks, guys!

TC

 

[retiredgentleman]

TeeCat;

All engines wear internally. If you take a car filter or a bike filter and soak it in a solvent, you are sure to get metalic debris/particles. That means the filter is doing its job of collecting wear particles. Better to be in the filter than circulating in the engine.

The filters on my bike both contained heavy debris when I bought it. After doing a top end overhaul, and some parts replacement, no more large debris.

Now, when I remove the lower sump strainer, I find nothing in the mesh. The magnetic buttons on the strainer always have a black paste, which would be metal that has worn off of moving parts. The 2 drain plug magnets also have this black paste. That is quite normal.

My paper right side filter just appears to do its job quite well; never see any large particles.

Car automatic transmissions have a magnetic button in their sump. That magnet also will have a black paste, which is metal collected from wear of the gears. Crooked transmission shops have been known to show that black paste to a customer, and tell them they need to replace the wornout transmission Robbery for sure.

I'd say your engine internals are doing just fine. In fact with that many oil changes in such low miles, you could probably eat off the engine internals.

 

[TeeCat]

RG, thanks so much for taking the time to reply, and for the detailed explanation and reassurance. Your reply confirms what I had thought, and also what I learned from some research both before and after I asked the question here. So your input basically makes my evening, especially when we all read horror stories here and tend to think in terms of "what if...".

This was basically "dust" that I never would have seen if I had not bathed the filter in kerosene as twins suggested. So I'll have a clean filter to reinstall tomorrow. Come to think of it, my sump magnets never seemed to have more than a little "dust paste"... not much at all, really. But the material in the upper filter would have been undetectable without the kerosene bath.

Wow, I feel better. Thanks, RG. Really getting there with this bike, I feel. Sadly, spin-off from hurricane Irene may keep me and the old girl off the roads this weekend.

TC

 

[retiredgentleman]

TeeCat;

When 5twins said to use kerosene for filter/strainer cleaning, he meant the wire mesh type filters only. In this thread, I believe you are only talking about the upper, side filter, and you said you are using the Mikesxs cooler/filter. That means you have a paper filter, but you said you plan to re-install a newly cleaned filter. This does not compute ..................I'm sure you know the paper type filters are a one use only............they are never re-used.

 

[TeeCat]

RG, I suppose I'll be looking for another filter, then! I have no idea what I was thinking. It sure is mighty thick paper, though!

If I recall correctly, though, that filter in that Heiden oil cooler kit is a commonly available Honda one (I hope). I'll be trying to identify/looking for one now... glad you mentioned it!

It's not damaged, though, and very clean. Can I re-use it in an emergency? Our bike shops notoriously fail to stock even the most common parts.

TC

 

[gggGary]

I think most auto parts stores carry that filter also.

 

[TeeCat]

Gary, thank you, mate... I'm gonna carry it into Advance Auto and/or NAPA this afternoon and see. Shouldn't be a problem, I hope. It may be Honda FS-705.

TC

 

[pcoumbe]

TC, your filter element also fits an XL200 Honda so I'd expect your Honda dealer to carry them plus it fits a late model 175 Kawasaki engine so you could try them also.
Another good habit to get into at service intervals is to drain your old filters thoroughly, cut them open and remove a section of the paper, take it outside and look at it in direct sunlight and you will see any deposits clear enough to identify iron, aluminium, rubber, etc. After a number of services it becomes like reading a book on your engine condition and you will instantly notice if contaminants begin to increase, especially in your case with the number of oil changes you are doing.

 

[TeeCat]

pc, thanks for these tips, especially about the bikes that the filter fits.

I didn't cut this filter because I'd thought I could reuse it, but every spec of the particulate matter in it seems to have been magnetic, so I'm actually glad of that, based on RG's helpful input.

TC

 

[retiredgentleman]

TeeCat;

Replacement filters:

Fram CH 6015
AC Delco PF 2148
Emgo 10-99200
NAPA 4944
Purolator ML16815
Wix 24944
K&N KN-112
Can Tire 27-5514-6
Mikesxs

Prices will vary, with the Wix being the most expensive ($15.86). I've found the ones from XSdirect (canadian Mikesxs) to be the least expensive and they do a good job. They are only $4.12 each, and I order 4 at once when ordering other parts.

 

[TeeCat]

Holy crap, RG! Thanks! Now I can just take these numbers and go by the store on the way home from work.

I would never have thought there'd be so many different filters that are dimensionally identical. Advance Auto should have at least one of these.

Edit: their website says my local store stocks Fram CH 6015. Excellent.

 

[TeeCat]

For those with the Heiden oil cooler, I was able to buy the Fram CH 6015 right off the shelf at Advance Auto. It's very likely that they and other such parts houses, such as NAPA, have it and/or its corresponding parts number from other manufacturers.

Also, RG's post above is a great candidate for permanent residence in the Tech Section for the benefit of those who have the Heiden cooler.

Thanks again, RG!

TC