Quick question

[Mikey]

What size are the allen head bolts to take the cover off the clutch basket 8mm 10mm?? 1975 650
I'm just going to buy a metrix t handle wrench set and want to make sure it has the right one
Thanks Mike

 

[5twins]

The Allen bolts holding both the left and right side covers on take an M5 size Allen wrench. A set of Allen sockets is nice to have so you can torque these. The right cover holds oil and seals up best if the bolts are all equally tightened (torqued).

 

[Mikey]

The Allen bolts holding both the left and right side covers on take an M5 size Allen wrench. A set of Allen sockets is nice to have so you can torque these. The right cover holds oil and seals up best if the bolts are all equally tightened (torqued).

I have the allen sockets I just want the t handle allen wrench to start them then I'll use the socket to torx them to spec
Thanks for the info
Mike

 

[Mikey]

I have the allen sockets I just want the t handle allen wrench to start them then I'll use the socket to torx them to spec
Thanks for the info
Mike

But what is the size to take the cover of the clutch basket it self like if your changing clutch plates etc
I want to get the clutch basket off and replace #4 gear and tighten up the clip that goes on it

 

[5twins]

If it's still stock, they aren't Allens, they're #3 Phillips .....

If they've been replaced with the Allen bolt kit (or modded stock screws), they take the same 5mm size as the covers do .....

 

[Jan_P]

Sir
If you have the sockets maybe this is an alternative
https://www.biltema.se/en-se/tools/...rs/ring-open-end-spanners/t-handle-2000038109

Personally I am more accustomed with a 1/4 inch ratchet with extension but I have those
And sometimes use them

The hex bit that goes in is 5 mm not sure what the bolt thread is I have not taken one off
the Nomination M5 is for a Metric 5 mm coarse thread ..
Not so common
fex the torque specs have 1. 5 mm for caliper ----6 and 8 more used
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/xs650-torque-settings/

 

[5twins]

Yes, a 3/8" drive T-handle is a wonderful tool (get the 1/4" drive version too). It will turn your whole socket set into T-handles .....

Motion Pro makes nice ones .....

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0159

While on their site, visit their "Clearance" section and pick up one of these .....

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0231

 

[Mikey]

If it's still stock, they aren't Allens, they're #3 Phillips .....

If they've been replaced with the Allen bolt kit (or modded stock screws), they take the same 5mm size as the covers do .....

Yep switched out to allen bolts

 

[Mikey]

Sir
If you have the sockets maybe this is an alternative
https://www.biltema.se/en-se/tools/...rs/ring-open-end-spanners/t-handle-2000038109

Personally I am more accustomed with a 1/4 inch ratchet with extension but I have those
And sometimes use them

The hex bit that goes in is 5 mm not sure what the bolt thread is I have not taken one off
the Nomination M5 is for a Metric 5 mm coarse thread ..
Not so common
fex the torque specs have 1. 5 mm for caliper ----6 and 8 more used
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/xs650-torque-settings/

Yes, a 3/8" drive T-handle is a wonderful tool (get the 1/4" drive version too). It will turn your whole socket set into T-handles .....

Motion Pro makes nice ones .....

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0159

While on their site, visit their "Clearance" section and pick up one of these .....

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0231

Looks like I'm shopping tonight
That motion pro tool will let me use what I have for sockets and still be able to start the bolts straight

 

[Mikey]

Sir
If you have the sockets maybe this is an alternative
https://www.biltema.se/en-se/tools/...rs/ring-open-end-spanners/t-handle-2000038109

Personally I am more accustomed with a 1/4 inch ratchet with extension but I have those
And sometimes use them

The hex bit that goes in is 5 mm not sure what the bolt thread is I have not taken one off
the Nomination M5 is for a Metric 5 mm coarse thread ..
Not so common
fex the torque specs have 1. 5 mm for caliper ----6 and 8 more used
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/xs650-torque-settings/

Thanks for the reply If I'm not sure on something you guys will set me on the right path

 

[Mikey]

Yes, a 3/8" drive T-handle is a wonderful tool (get the 1/4" drive version too). It will turn your whole socket set into T-handles .....

Motion Pro makes nice ones .....

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0159

While on their site, visit their "Clearance" section and pick up one of these .....

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0231

Gotta love clearance sections Whoohoo new tools coming

 

[5twins]

Although they're quite useful just about everywhere, one of the best applications for this T-handle is for removing and installing your fork top caps. You can push down while you turn when installing them to compress the fork spring and get the cap nut started, keep downward pressure on the cap as you remove it so the spring doesn't shoot it across the room once it's fully unscrewed. You'll quickly grow to love this tool, lol. Watch the pit crews at any bike race and you'll see them using these all over the place.

 

[MaxPete]

If it's still stock, they aren't Allens, they're #3 Phillips .....

If they've been replaced with the Allen bolt kit (or modded stock screws), they take the same 5mm size as the covers do .....

With all due respect 5Twins, NOOOOOOO....NOOOOO.....they're not #3 Phillips - they are #3 Japan Industrial Standard (JIS) screws - as are everything else on every Japanese-built car, bike, VCR, toaster...etc.

It may not seem like a big deal - but note how the JIS screw in middle of 5Twin's photo of five clutch basket screws is all chowdered - that is because someone used a Phillips driver on it. In fact, if you look carefully, the heads of nearly all of the cross-head screws on nearly all Japanese bikes are chowdered - and that is because nearly everyone used Phillips drivers on them all these years.

PLEASE BELIEVE me when I tell you that using a JIS driver is much more effective and you will stop damaging the screws.

If you use a Vessel IMPACTA #3 impact drive (see photo below - the #3 IMPACTA is the big silver handled lad second from the right) - those clutch screws will be off quicker than a bride's nighty.

You can get a full set of very high quality "Vessel" brand JIS drivers on the interweb for not much money or you can order an equally nice set from www.gofastinnovations.com and either set will look very fetching in your tool box.

The only wrinkle is that gofastinnovations.com does not offer an impact driver like the silver-handled Vessel IMPACTA - but rather they offer a set of bits that can be used in an impact driver (and these work fine too - if you have the correct impact driver handle).

Oh dear me - am I becoming obsessed with this issue?

Pete

 

[member28833]

Oh dear me - am I becoming obsessed with this issue

Na, a guys gotta say what he believes in.
Obsessed with "nice rack" perhaps tho

 

[member28833]

More seriously, having heard how those clutch screws are easy to chowder up, I attempted to remove those on my spare clutch with the common "Vessel #3 impacta bit" it worked just fine until I got over confident and eased a grip on one and wham, that screw head was ruined in one bad blow.

 

[MaxPete]

I did the #4 starter gear hairclip pinch on Demi ('81 Special) a couple of years ago and the stock screws were a complete mess. I figured I was in for a pretty miserable drill-out job but that Vessel #3 IMPACTA loosened them on the very first hit - and in fact (believe it or not) the heads looked fairly serviceable AFTER I removed them just from the working-over they got from the IMPACTA driver.

Odd - but true. That one job made the investment well worth the cost - for certain.

I had a set of the aftermarket XS650 Performance socket-head capscrew (i.e. Allen head) conversion screws on-hand so I installed those, but I have kept the OEM screws just in case, because they are now quite serviceable.

Pete

 

[gggGary]

Prolly the WORST screws to remove on the XS650 are the 4 screws holding the carbs to the angle iron on 76 up bikes. Some sort of "red loctite" equivalent on them? Video is shot using a new Milwaukee brand #3 Phillips impact bit (sorry Pete)

I'll apologize for the video quality, undoing the screws one handed while filming.
I originally shot this to demonstrate the usefulness of modern battery 5/16" impact drivers.
But the whole JIS vs quality NOT worn out phillips drivers is also the point, ie with a high quality phillips bit or screw driver used properly, head stripping is not an issue. I'll even remove throttle shaft screws with a phillips bit. Though I usually go find one of my JIS #2 Vessel driver bits.
Phillips and JIS drivers WEAR OUT! I normally go through 5-10 bits a year. and mebbie 2 or 3 phillips screw drivers. I also regrind 4-5 straight blade screw drivers annually. Hey I screw around a lot!

Please note; carbs are flat on a concrete floor so I can easily apply enough downwards pressure to reduce the chances of cam out. Watch how carefully I Iine up and apply downwards pressure insuring the bit is aligned and fully engaged in the screw head BEFORE hitting the trigger. If primitive Pete has ben there before me I take the bit and set it by tapping with a hammer. This helps reform a buggered up head, and perhaps helps loosen the threads a bit. As always if threads are fighting you, reverse course, tighten a bit then go back to loosening. Some sort of liquid on the threads never a bad idea. Rust buster is good but It hardly matters what liquid you use, anything is more slippery than a dry thread. Heat helps too.

 

[gggGary]

Often a really buggered up phillips head can be reformed with a punch and hammer, drive some metal back into the 4 "corners", use a bit and hammer to help reshape the X then re-attempt. Only as a last resort drill the head off the screw.

 

[5twins]

I've found using a J.I.S. screwdriver or insert bit isn't as critical on the larger #3 size, normal screwdrivers seem to fit OK. I do faithfully use the J.I.S. drivers on the smaller screws though. My "go to" J.I.S. bits are the Vessel 1060, 1061, 1062, and 1063 .....

For the smaller sizes, I generally use this Craftsman finger bit holder .....

For installing carb jets, I'll only use the above holder or a "stubby" bit holder at most .....

..... but for jet removal, I often need to resort to a T-handle bit holder .....

For some reason jets seem to tighten up after they've been in there a while, don't know why. That's why I only use the stubby screwdriver for installing them. Put them in with a big old regular sized screwdriver and you may never get them back out, lol.

 

[gggGary]

5T and others LOL, I've found success (and reduced anxiety) when removing jets by giving a light hammer tap or two on the end of the screwdriver before twisting, seems to "unset" the the threads.