Rings, or stem seals?

[cmattina1]

For all I know it may be neither.

I am asking mostly out of curiosity because I don't think I have the money (or shop) to fix either. Though, I guess I may consider finding a friend with a garage.

I changed my plugs yesterday and my left plug had a decent amount of oily crud on it (but still firing), and my right looked okay. I had noticed a bit of oil seaping through spark plug hole, so I wasn't surprised. After 5 km with the new plugs, the right was already blackened, I believe with oil.

The weird thing is there is there is no smoke coming out of the tail pipe(s).

From doing some research it is likely the rings or valve stem seals, but do those disagnoses still make sense without smoke?

the bike seems to be running quite well, so I am not overly concerned...

 

[Patches]

Have you done a compression test?

 

[retiredgentleman]

When I bought my bike, the plugs would blacken quickly and I was using a lot of oil. The bike ran normally, but I would get puffs of black out the exhaust. When I did a top end re-build, I found the head gasket was passing oil from the camchain tunnel into the cylinders. I suspect a PO had opened up the engine and never did a proper re-torque after assembly. I ran the bike for one year like that.

If the bike is running OK, just drive it until you have time/money to re-build the top end.

 

[cmattina1]

Have you done a compression test?

Well, I have only owned it for a month, and the PO told me he did a test by kicking (I assume) and got 155-170 (after 3 strokes), and after one stroke he was only at 75-80.

So, I realize that is not perfect, and may actually explain the oil in one cyclinder, but without a complete rebuild I don't think I could hope from much more, though I am not completely familiar with what is Great, good, okay, and bad...

But, as long as I am not doing any major damage by running it like this, I don't mind just keeping an eye on the plugs, and if I'm not blowing smoke all over the place...?

 

[gggGary]

Yup run it, carry spare plugs. Consider spraying some PB blaster in the plug holes and maybe on the valve stems through the valve cover ports, kick it over a few times and let it sit over night before running it.

 

[Patches]

Rule No. 1: Never trust PO's.
Yes, you could leave it and keep riding it the way it is, but is that the right thing to do. Probably not. A quick hone job, rings, and new valve stem seals is a relevantly easy and inexpensive job to get you bike back to %100. If you have a lot of carbon build up it can contribute to higher compression and other problems down the road that may have detrimental effects.....

 

[cmattina1]

I understand on not trusting PO's. I plan to compression test asap.

I guess the rings and seals are cheap themselves, but then i'll need a spring compressor and a garage to do the work. Also, there is the risk of an inexperienced person (myself), screwing something up...

 

[sreimer]

Compression tests are nice but a leakdown test will show you what's wrong

 

[gggGary]

Good Grief he's in thunder Bay, summer's short. I wouldn't take off for the west coast but I'd ride it locally and see what happens. Plenty of time for overhauls next winter. I have seen engines reduce their oil consumption after some regular use after having set. I have had some that kept getting worse too......... Thing is oil use isn't a knock it's just oil getting into the combustion chamber. Yes leak down test is best but the engine could use oil and have a good leak down number too, a cracked valve oil seal comes to mind.

 

[Purplezinger]

Run it like it is, GG is right it might improve (especially if it's stuck rings). Any number of things could go wrong during a quick tear down. Keep a spare set of plugs with you when you ride, change when they foul out. When the weather goes sour and/or money, time, work place and tools become available THEN do a proper repair job...

A side note, trying one heat or perhaps two heat ranges hotter spark plugs may help keep the fouling burnt off. Consider this a band aid until later.

 

[cmattina1]

I hear ya. As I said, it is running well and no smoke (yet???).

GG, I'm glad someone knows where Thunder Bay is, though perhaps you come up here to fish, or have done the circle tour? I saw a lot of WI trucks crossing the border today while I was picking up the jacket from Purplezinger (which seems to be just what i was looking for, so thanks a lot!)

However, this may sound dumb, but I was hoping to take the bike on a long trip at the end of the summer. That said, I was planning on taking it on a 200-500km test ride first.

I assume, with anything, the more I run it the more I'll exasperate the issue. However, I do not know what the final outcome COULD be. I'd assume, more and more oil will get in until it doesn't run and it DOES start blowing blue smoke all over the place? I'm thinking best case sceneio (and what I am so far planning on) is if it doesnt crap out before I intend to leave, then just leave, bring spare oil and spark plugs (i plan on doing oil changes along the way), and "hope for the best" - hell, i can always take a bus home.

 

[gggGary]

Well ya never know. Like you say ride it and see what happens. I'll repeat the penetrating oil in the plug holes and let it sit overnight, won't hurt, might help.

Thunder bay is awesome, been there a few times over the years, first time about 1960. Sleeping giant, Fort William, done the circle tour. Keep trying to repeat the circle tour on a bike but it doesn't quite happen.

 

[cmattina1]

Yeah, I love it, summers are short and sweet, though.

As for the PB blaster, it probably has instructions on the can, but do I spray very much in or just a few quick sprays, would I leave the plugs out over night, or put them back in (before kicking)? I guess leaving it over night just allows the chemicals to penetrate where they need to.

 

[gggGary]

Yeah no need to drown it, a few seconds each side, plugs out kick it slowly a time or two. Maybe a couple of good kicks or a crank on the starter in the morning and put the plugs back in and ride it.

 

[Purplezinger]

The idea is: If it's stuck rings the PB Blaster could penetrate and help work them loose. I had a "Back porch" 650 once that had stuck rings. They never got completely OK but good enough to run for several years.
For those that don't know a "Back Porch" 650 is one that was found abandoned on someone's back porch.
Charlie I hope you like the jacket. How was the "fit".

 

[oldbiker]

hi you could run 1 grade hotter spark plug ,,,,,which would help ,,, and cheap enough to do ... regards oldbiker

 

[cmattina1]

The jacket fits nice, and makes for a more comfortable ride.

As for a hotter plug, I was actually running it with BP6ES for a bout 350km with the cruddy plug, mostly short trips. I put in BPR7ES in, out of necessity as I can't get BP7ES in Thunder Bay, but will order some on my next purchase at Xsdirect.