Siezed front mounting bolt

[IllusiveJack]

Goo day all, I have a problem from hell trying to free up a seized bolt from the front engine mounting, I tried to use penetrating oil (we don't get PB Buster here, so can't have that luxury lol) I have tried to hammer it out, then used an imact wrench on the bold and that sheared off the head, I haven't really tried to heat up the casing around it as I don't know if that will cause any damage to the casing itself, my next option is to drill from both ends and hope it meets in the middle, does anyone have any other things I can try? Can I heat the casing up with a blow torch? Cheers for your help in advance..

 

[peanut]

yes you could heat the casing slowly with a blowtorch but if you overdo it you could end up with the aluminium engine mount crumbling you would still end up having to whack the bolt which could damage the crankcase

If it were me I would take a 1'8" drill bit to it slowly and carefully drill a pilot hole through the centre of the bolt then gradually work up the drill sizes until you can drift the residue of the bolt out as it collapses. Don't be tempted to drill it in one go

You need to use the drill on a low setting not high speed . If you turn the drill bit slow enough it will really eat into the bolt .Too fast it will just get hot and go blunt.

 

[gggGary]

Good job for an air bully. How the heck did you get the mount off the engine?
Drill in the center of the bolt just enough to make a divot so you can use a bolt as a drift and the divot will keep it centered. Good solid impacts, working on both sides till it starts to move. Be sure to use some sort of rust buster even if you can't get PB blaster LOL.
You could weld a nut on one side so that you can apply twisting action, the heat from welding might help break the corrosion also. A hardwood block from the other side to the floor will help increase the effectiveness of your blows and prevent damage to the rest of the engine.

I would use a heat gun not a gas torch for heating action.

 

[peanut]

Never one to dissagree with your wisdom and experience but I'm not sure that thumping the bolt with a big hammer is the way to go with this one Gary
Its already sheared the head of a huge bolt so it must be well stuck in the aluminium crankcase

My feeling is that drilling the bolt is less invasive and has an extremely low damage risk to the expensive crankcases

How the heck did you get the mount off the engine?
.

Iwas wondering the same thing myself !... I assume that he used a hacksaw to cut off the bolt head and nut

 

[nj1639]

Wondering if that is a piece of all-thread from a PO?
If so then slow drilling may twist it out if you find the correct rotation for such.

 

[IllusiveJack]

Hi Guys, yeah I forgot to mention how I got the mounting off, I used a small junior hacksaw and about an hour and half later I managed to get through lol, shame really as the mounting was in pretty good shape before I started... I will try the drill approach as I ordered some long drills now oh I also ordered some pretty 1st class penetrating oil called Plus Gas that all the motor companys use over here, so will give that a try first...

 

[peanut]

you probably won't need to drill right through the bolt

I would think about 3/4 of the bolt would be more than enough and the rest of the bolt will probably drift out easily.

junior hacksaw eh!? you're a masochist !

Good luck and take it nice and steady . What are your plans with the engine ?

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Jack,
you could try using a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF, it's claimed that mix works as well if not better than fancy-Dan penetrating oils and costs far less.
But if the bolt is caulked in place with a rust & aluminum oxide mix there ain't no gap for the fluid to penetrate so drilling the thing out may be your only option.

 

[IllusiveJack]

Yeah I think drilling looks to be the only option really :/

 

[IllusiveJack]

Well it took me a day using a rechargable drill, but the bolt finally came free with no damage to the casings I've never been so happy to see that pop out haha

 

[peanut]

nice one

very satisfying isn't it.

I once managed to drill a stuck seatpin from a gorgeous Cannondale CAAD9 cycle frame . Took me 6x solid hours of drilling and honing as the aluminium walls are only fag paper thin but I now have a useable frame thats worth more to me than a brand new one.

 

[torider]

You can also use this type of drill bit in case it would happen again.

 

[fredintoon]

You can also use this type of drill bit in case it would happen again. - - -

Hi torider,
those are EasyOuts.
Do not use them.
The very name is a black lie.
What they do when they are over-torqued is to snap off like a carrot.
They are also harder than any known drill bit.
The only way to remove the broken stub is with an Electrical Discharge Machine.

 

[luckynumber0]

Fred - Wait... I use those!

I get the set out every time I have to get at the sump filter because the 30-40 year old bolts that hold the plate almost always break in half during reassembly. I've learned my lesson and just toss the old bolts out to replace with new ones, but still - if it weren't for my easyouts I'd have a lot of dead 650cc paperweights in the yard.

If you don't use them for this sort of work, what do you use?

 

[peanut]

well I'm with Fred on this one Lucky... you must be one of the few that are careful enough to use easyouts without a problem.

I'm sure that easyouts do work occasionally. The problem is that they are extremely hard and brittle and most of us are very heavy-handed when it comes to using tools .

If an easyout is snapped off in a sheared stud or bolt then you have zero options left. They cannot be drilled so you are then completely stuffed !

If you have the patience and skill then the only sensible option is to carefully run a small 1/8th pilot drill into the stud or bolt to create a centre guide and gradually work up the drill sizes until the remains of the stud can be removed or in the worse case a heli-coil insert installed .

 

[fredintoon]

Fred - Wait... I use those!

I get the set out every time I have to get at the sump filter because the 30-40 year old bolts that hold the plate almost always break in half during reassembly. I've learned my lesson and just toss the old bolts out to replace with new ones, but still - if it weren't for my easyouts I'd have a lot of dead 650cc paperweights in the yard.

If you don't use them for this sort of work, what do you use?

Hi lucky,
seems like what you need to use is a torque wrench, eh?
I drill the bastards out and salvage the thread with a Helicoil.
I've seen left-handed drill bits recommended too.
If I could get my el-cheapo drill press to run backwards I'd get some.

 

[gggGary]

I gotta toss in my 2c.
Easy outs have their place I just can't think of it right now, I have a collection of "short" easy outs from before I smartened up some..... Remember it's smaller than the stuck bolt how much torque can it take before it breaks? A bad thing about easy outs is; they tend to expand the bolt, tightening it's grip in the aluminum casting, this is not so good!

LH drill bits are fershizzle. The combo of heating the bolt as you drill and loosening torque is all it takes more often than not.
Use your battery drill Fred! This is more about the drill bit catching and backing the screw out than actually having to drill it all the way out. How often can you get the big ass casting with the broken off bolt on the drill press anyways? Start with a smallish bit, work up toward the bolt OD.
Luckily the broken off bolt is usually holding on a cover so the hole in the cover with a collar will center your drill bit on the busted bolt. Start by hitting it with rust buster, grind the busted bolt flat and or get a center punch mark started with light hits on the punch, learn to move the mark to perfect centering. Some hammer tapping on a busted bolt is a good thing.

lucky-no; Ease up there man. I've removed/installed a lot of sump plates, have yet to break one of those special bolts and have never stripped a case thread either. I won't say never but I rarely have a sump leak, if it leaks it's about the sealing surfaces not the bolt torque. I use my educated wrist not a torque wrench to install.

 

[luckynumber0]

All interesting stuff. I'm really glad to know about other options to employ before the easyout...I didn't know it could go so wrong and I'm glad I'm reading about it rather than experiencing it

Just to save face a little here...I don't believe it was my heavy hand that did the bolt busting! If it had just happened to me the one time I would've laughed at myself and clocked it as an overtorquing...But after it happened to a friend's XS who was working in my shop, I thought it odd and asked to compare his bolts with mine...Both sets were pretty warped and thin...As if they were all quite sickly. We went out and got new bolts and had no problem torquring them up to the 6ft-lbs.

 

[lakeview]

Would it be wrong to drill a 3/16 or smaller hole 90 degrees to the bolt through the boss in the case down to the steel bolt to use to introduce some penetrating fluid? I have the same bolt stuck in the case, I have actually got it to move about 1/8th in and out but no more.

 

[fredintoon]

- - - LH drill bits are fershizzle. The combo of heating the bolt as you drill and loosening torque is all it takes more often than not.
Use your battery drill Fred! - - -

Hi Gary,
Alas that my teenspeak lacks the reference, is fershizzle a good thing or a bad thing?
And while cordless, or even corded hand drills will run backwards I find it difficult to hold them as square as they need to be so anything that will fit on the drillpress work table goes there instead.