Simple electrical system

[apox]

Ok I know ive had a few posts up already about this but I have more detailed information now and im wondering what I can do to make a simple starting circuit. I currently have nothing for points (side cover is empty *see picture*) and the PO put in a new auto advance unit from mike's XS. Part number #14-0652 $65 but he did not do the advance rod/bushing thing I hear about but don't understand.

I currently have these parts please tell me how I can configure them or what im missing/need to buy to get this going because its a headache at this point

pictures will also be provided of each part.

1980 XS650SG 3U6 – Frame and most other parts (Canada)
1977 XS650D 447-70XXXX ENGINE/Alternator
Regulator/rectifier combo 1980 (pretty sure its dead)(the resistance was rather high off the red and the black wire)
Starter – hitachi S108-35 12V 0.5KW (works, I put a battery to it 10 minutes ago)
6 Wire ingition unit (fried for sure, check picture)

Does it have no points because it has the more modern ignition from the 1980+ parts?

 

[jayel]

need a pic of the left side alternator/rotor assembly to know what you have as far as the rest of the ignition system 77 would have no pickup on the stator 80 & later will

 

[apox]

Its the LD115 HITACHI alternator *see picture*

bushings are still good btw.

 

[Travis]

What you're calling the stator is the coil. That black thing on your alternator is the TCI pickup, so you could get a new TCI box and have it running pretty eaisly depending on your wiring situation.. Another alternative is get that advance rod/bushing and a pamco unit if it will work with that coil.

 

[Travis]

Just looked at the pictures again.. You have the advance rod. Where the points would go is where the Pamco would go. If you use a stock TCI then there is nothing on either side. You could also get a points setup but I would probably not pick that option..

 

[XSLeo]

I think at this point with the transistor burnt up I might try replacing the transistor, see the threads on fixing TCI boxes, they tell how to checnge the transistor and what one to use.
Either that or get the basic Pamco. Mike's # 14-0900 You have the advancer installed so it's an easy install.
In your other thread I said the Boyer coil wouldn't work with the TCI box. I think i'm wrong on that.
If Travis says it will, then it will. I don't know much about the Boyer, I know some used a .6 ohm coil and some used a different coil.
You can check the Boyer for the primary resistance to see what the ohms are. If 2.5 to 4.5 ohm I think it should work with a TCI or the Pamco.
Getting a TCI box might cost as much as the Pamco. It may or may not be a good part, Ebay sellers aren't always as honest as they could be.
With the Pamco you will get the best customer support there is.
Either the Pamco or TCI can be wired to get the engine to run. A battery and a switch with a few feet of wire and you can wire it enough to run.

 

[Travis]

...
In your other thread I said the Boyer coil wouldn't work with the TCI box. I think i'm wrong on that.
If Travis says it will, then it will. I don't know much about the Boyer, I know some used a .6 ohm coil and some used a different coil.
You can check the Boyer for the primary resistance to see what the ohms are. If 2.5 to 4.5 ohm I think it should work with a TCI or the Pamco.
......

No no.. If XSLeo says it won't, then it won't.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I knew if that coil would or wouldn't work. I don't know if it will or not. I know a little about boyer ignitions because I have one, but don't know about that coil with the stock TCI.

 

[jayel]

Its the LD115 HITACHI alternator *see picture*

bushings are still good btw.

I would repair and use the TCI, since you have the parts for it. it is a better system than the points and once set maintenance free

 

[apox]

The TCI is pretty heavily burnt on that corner, a bit of the corner even broke off! So I'm left with just the metal conductive track hanging in free air still attached though! But still, I think it's gonna be to hard to repair to be honest. Ok so I can't use the Boyer with pamco.. And maybe the TCI fried because the previous owner used it with the Boyer... I'm thinking the noob burnt it up because he didnt read that the Boyer isn't the right part, and then sold me the bike. Now if I were going to go with points, because I already have advance rod, it's a 77 so it used to run points, owner put brand new auto advance unit in, I even have the points contacts. But I don't have any of the hardware or the plate.

So my question is, minus the actually little spring points contacts what am I missing to complete a points system? And will the Boyer work with it?

Thanks

 

[hooktool]

I don't really understand, do you have a Boyer? The Boyer would not have been hooked to the TCI. If you have a Boyer, use that and throw away the TCI. If not, you have the advance already and can use the Pamco and throw away the TCI.

The Boyer does not use the Yamaha advance unit, but has its own shaft that goes through the cam.

TCI (stock), Pamco, or Boyer are all ignitions and do the same thing. TCI works well if its in good shape, Boyer works well, in my experience, and The Pamco has made a lot of people happy. Take your pick, but it sounds like your TCI is crap.

John

 

[apox]

The PO bought only the Boyer coil and yes he had it hooked up to the stock gear.. He bought it solely to replace the stock coil, so it was in with the TCI and is probably why it's fried, the burnt transistor smelt fresh. He even changed the advance which apparently with the tci you don't even need! So this guy did not know what he was doing.

 

[CDNTX650]

yup, the coil resistance was probably way to low for the stock TCI.

 

[apox]

I just ordered the basic pamco ignition system with the coil, and some new bushings, mine were getting a bit short, and I needed it to be over $150! canadian site . So hopefully that is all I need!!!!

Btw ill be selling that boyer coil. its coil 00008

 

[hooktool]

The TCI motor didn't even have the advance parts. Boy, he was way out there. I'll pass on that coil-I asked in your FS add.

John

 

[apox]

Actually it's a 77 motor, in an 80 special. Just plugged into all the newer electronics (TCI) so it had the advance rod and advance but it looked old and worn he said.. Still doesn't change the fact that he thought he needed it with a TCI unit.. Lol.

 

[XSLeo]

The Boyer coil if it has the .6 ohm primary will fry the transistor in the TCI. The .6 ohms will draw about 25 amps. the TCI transistor won't carry that much current !0 amps maybe. The TCI coil at 2.5 ohms draws about 6 amps. The 3.9 ohm points coil draws about 4 amps.
So depending on the primary ohms of the Boyer coil it may or may not work with the points or Pamco.
Getting the Pamco and a coil as a set is much safer than trying the Boyer coil.
By "bushings" and "getting a bit short" mean the brushes for the alternator?
I might reccomend getting a test meter. It comes handy for troubleshooting the electrics.
I have a few meters. One SunPro digital from the parts store. Around $40. A $9 cheapy anolog, has the needle indicater. The one I use most is the Harbor Freight #90899 digital meter. Retails for about $10, on sale most of the time around $6. Lot of magazines have their ad and have a 20% off coupon so it can be bought for less than $5. If will work well with any testing your bike needs.
I might also suggest a good repair manual. The Factory books Have the best pics and parts breakdown. The Clymer and Haynes are ok. Some like one, some the other.
Biker.net has the factory as downloads. I have found the factory manuals on Ebay. Around $35-$45 for the big books that cover everything and $10-$15 for the supplements. I have factory books that cover from 70 to 80. The 78 book covers mostly the upgrades from the older models. The 78 ES, F and Gbooks are just suppliments and cover the changes those years incorporate. I have the Clmers book, and would like the Haynes book so when they say "the Haynes books says" I can look and see what the book says.

 

[apox]

Excellent, just as I suspected. I ordered the kit, so I'll use the new coil (pamco). I have a few meters, one nice one. I took a 2 year electrical engineering program in college, so I know lots about electronics, but zero about their actual application in motorcycles. I'm learning fast though! And yes I meant brushes for alternator sorry, ive ordered new ones with the pamco anyways so it's all good, I'll have a short but ok set for back up now in case of anything!

Thanks

 

[XSLeo]

Adapting your electronics knowledge to the XS650 won't be to hard. The XS650 isn't to complicated. They did use a few things that prove to be trouble 30+ years later. The light checker, turn signal canceler, reserve lighting unit are a few.

 

[apox]

Ya.. I live in Ontario, Canada so our Laws are pretty lame. I'll worry about all that stuff later, just putting together a starting/charging circuit (kick only) to get the engine running first. Then I'll add all the laws later .. Uh I mean lights

 

[XSLeo]

The charging system is the most important part of the electrics. With out a properly charging battery it won't run long, and probaly not to well. Let alone run the laws, oops I mean lights.