Spark head scratcher

[njrmahoney]

Its a long story.
83 TCI 650, pretty much stock. suffered from weak to no spark. I decided to switch out to Pamco with the advance unit and while I was at it I went with HH PMA. Everything is together and still, no spark. here are the details. I wired the three wires from the pamco into the plug from the TCI per instructions, red wire to the red/white wire, green wire to the orange wire, black to black. new high output coil. getting 12.6V at the red/white on the coil. 12.6V at the red wire on the pamco. tested out the coil seems within specs. I removed the old voltage regulator, and installed the PMA regulator in the same place. I did notice I have no headlight now, horn works, tail light is working. I think it is the brown wire from the old alternator harness plug, but that's another issue.

So, what next. I am getting sick of it.

 

[Edgewood RI]

I would like to test the Pamco set up with a second battery, but I am a little unclear as to the procedure.
I saw this posted by pete
just get a spare battery and put it on the floor and hook up the PAMCO red wire to the positive terminal of the battery and ground the negative terminal of the battery to the frame. What about juice to the coil, is that coming from the original battery?

 

[Edgewood RI]

After looking at some photos of the pamco plate and rotor, I noticed that my set up has the GREEN wire attached to the small board on the plate where it says RED, and th RED wire is attached to where it says GREEN. could this be the problem?

 

[xjwmx]

^I remember from another thread that they are labeled backward on the board. It would save a lot of headaches to simply cover it on the board with a marker before they're sent out.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Its a long story.
83 TCI 650, pretty much stock. suffered from weak to no spark. I decided to switch out to Pamco with the advance unit and while I was at it I went with HH PMA. Everything is together and still, no spark. here are the details. I wired the three wires from the pamco into the plug from the TCI per instructions, red wire to the red/white wire, green wire to the orange wire, black to black. new high output coil. getting 12.6V at the red/white on the coil. 12.6V at the red wire on the pamco. tested out the coil seems within specs. I removed the old voltage regulator, and installed the PMA regulator in the same place. I did notice I have no headlight now, horn works, tail light is working. I think it is the brown wire from the old alternator harness plug, but that's another issue.

So, what next. I am getting sick of it.

"I wired the three wires from the pamco into the plug from the TCI"...................that statement does not make sense? To add the Pamco to your bike, you don't use any of the TCI components, plugs or wires. "green wire to the orange wire" also does not make sense. What orange wire?

The only existing part of your bike's wiring you use is the red/white wire coming from the kill switch. Its all new from that point to the ignition coil and to the pamco circuit board.

I suggest you take a look at Pamcopete's web site.
http://www.yamahaxs650.com/

Correct your wiring to agree with the diagram on his site. You will also find testing instructions, that allow you to test the pamco circuit without running the engine.

When you removed the stock alternator, you lost the voltage signal (yellow wire) from the alternator that previously operated the Safety Relay. The SR turns the headlight on and off. Use the Googe Search here on the site to learn more about the SR.

 

[Edgewood RI]

The switched wire red/white and the orange wire which are at my coil also run to the end of the tci plug, the half of the plug that stays behind after removing the TCI there is also a ground there. Here is the post by Pete himself

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24434

It is possible that somewhere in the wiring i have an issue, so going around it is in the cards. I would like to run it off a second battery.
just for a clean test.

 

[retiredgentleman]

The switched wire red/white and the orange wire which are at my coil also run to the end of the tci plug, the half of the plug that stays behind after removing the TCI there is also a ground there. Here is the post by Pete himself

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24434

It is possible that somewhere in the wiring i have an issue, so going around it is in the cards. I would like to run it off a second battery.
just for a clean test.

Yes, the post by Pamcopete shows a way to piggy back onto the TCI plug. That would work using the orange wire to the old stock TCI coil. However, njrmahoney is using a new coil, so it would be a cleaner install if he used all new wiring, rather than rely on an old TCI plug and old wire/connections.

 

[Edgewood RI]

both Edgewood and Njrmahoney are me, I have two computers and didn't notice that I have two accounts.

 

[njrmahoney]

Most recently I went with a second bat. to test. Battery on floor,
Hot wire from bat to one coil term
red wire from E-advance unit to same term
Green wire from E-advance unit to other term
Black wire to frame ground.
Battery Neg to frame ground.
Good ground at coil
Spark plug out, grounded to frame.
Pamco rotor free to spin by hand, No spark.
Should i By pass the e-advance unit, and try the same thing?

 

[retiredgentleman]

Most recently I went with a second bat. to test. Battery on floor,
Hot wire from bat to one coil term
red wire from E-advance unit to same term
Green wire from E-advance unit to other term
Black wire to frame ground.
Battery Neg to frame ground.
Good ground at coil
Spark plug out, grounded to frame.
Pamco rotor free to spin by hand, No spark.
Should i By pass the e-advance unit, and try the same thing?

No, you can't by-pass the E-advance unit. You need to contact Pamcopete for further instructions (warranty etc.) from him.

 

[njrmahoney]

What about just for testing with the hand spin method, not for actually running the bike. can i bypass the E-advance blu box in that instance?

 

[Edgewood RI]

Double post by accident

 

[Edgewood RI]

No, you can't by-pass the E-advance unit. You need to contact Pamcopete for further instructions (warranty etc.) from him.

What about just for testing with the hand spin method, not for actually running the bike. can i bypass the E-advance blu box in that instance?
Many of the wiring diagrams even on thePamco site show the E-advance unit not in-line. Mind you, I am not running the bike this way, just testing with the hand spin method outlined on the Pamco site.

 

[Rabbid]

What about just for testing with the hand spin method, not for actually running the bike. can i bypass the E-advance blu box in that instance?
Many of the wiring diagrams even on thePamco site show the E-advance unit not in-line. Mind you, I am not running the bike this way, just testing with the hand spin method outlined on the Pamco site.

Now I am by no means an expert and not even close to being qualified to even respond here but im currently running an ignition test setup.

1. Wire only pamco and e advance per petes directions wwww.yamahaxs650.com
2. Do not connect pma as it is not required to run bike.
3. Ensure solid frame ground connections. The ultimate coil needs to have a good ground as well.
4. Make sure battery is charged.

Couple things to remember are, the power running to the coil must be turned off when not in use or it will burn up. I have a kill switch inline here. Pete also recommends 7.5amp fuse to protect pamco. The reason the e advance is not in a lot of diagrams is because they were made before the eadvance was made..

Like I said before im new to this game still but I did this and have had no problems running.

 

[njrmahoney]

I am wondering if it is possible to by-pass the e-advance just to rule it out as a problem.
I doesn't seem like it would be problematic to wire the pamco directly to the coil with out the e-advance in line. I mean isn't that the way it is wired
if you are using mechanical advance?

 

[Rabbid]

The only way to rule out the eadvance is to swap in mechanical advance as far as I know. The advance is a part of your ignition system. Now with lots of information tossed around over the years it's easy to mix up what goes where depending on your model. I would take the whole ignition out and make sure its all installed correctly. Its easy to over look a locating pin or a bad electrical connection. Use new wiring if you can its not expensive.

Fyi the eadvance requires a different pamco rotor so swapping back and forth is not that straight forward

 

[retiredgentleman]

I am wondering if it is possible to by-pass the e-advance just to rule it out as a problem.
I doesn't seem like it would be problematic to wire the pamco directly to the coil with out the e-advance in line. I mean isn't that the way it is wired
if you are using mechanical advance?

Ignition coils need a relatively large current flow through the primary winding in order to make a spark. Th E-advancer has a transistor that can provide that current. The Pamco sensor only provides a very small signal current to the E-advancer, and cannot supply the current required by an ignition coil.

The early Pamco cb had the ability to provide the larger current to the coil, but the new sensors cannot do that.

 

[njrmahoney]

The only way to rule out the eadvance is to swap in mechanical advance as far as I know. The advance is a part of your ignition system. Now with lots of information tossed around over the years it's easy to mix up what goes where depending on your model. I would take the whole ignition out and make sure its all installed correctly. Its easy to over look a locating pin or a bad electrical connection. Use new wiring if you can its not expensive.

Fyi the eadvance requires a different pamco rotor so swapping back and forth is not that straight forward

Thats right I remeber, 90Deg. VS 60 Deg. magnet placement.

 

[njrmahoney]

Unit is going back for check up.

 

[njrmahoney]

Got new unit back, sparks like a mad-man