Starter motor condition question?

[Its been a long time]

Moved on to looking underneath the recently acquired XS650D, specifically at the starter motor. I have been half minded to pull the starter motor off the bike to check it.

As I'm working through this bike it's become very clear that the previous owner has done some work on the bike before selling it. Top end of the engine has definitely been apart, all gaskets and O rings are new, for example. Spark plugs came out and have never been fired, like new. Perhaps he or she lost interest in the bike, I'll never know.

Anyway, the starter motor. I haven't pulled it off. Inspection shows a very clean recent looking power lead connection onto the starter motor. Looking at the manual I have, I can't see that the stud is replaceable. But it clearly is very recent, as are the nuts clamping the power lead to the motor. I have stopped my thoughts of removing it to check it out. I think this motor has been out and been opened up recently. Why else would anyone just fit a new power lead connection? I can only think the motor has been recently overhauled.

What's the opinion of experienced owners here? Pull the motor, or leave it be and see how it works? Thanks in advance. Picture below -

 

[Raymond]

You don't say whether the starter motor works? Does the engine at least spin, even if not start when you press the button? I wouldn't remove the starter motor just to have a look.

On my XS, the starter doesn't show enough life to start the engine, even warm. Not a problem as I adopted the habit of always kicking anyway, but I really ought to pull it off, check it over and get it working. Just hasn't floated to the top of the priority list yet.

 

[Its been a long time]

You don't say whether the starter motor works? Does the engine at least spin, even if not start when you press the button? I wouldn't remove the starter motor just to have a look.

On my XS, the starter doesn't show enough life to start the engine, even warm. Not a problem as I adopted the habit of always kicking anyway, but I really ought to pull it off, check it over and get it working. Just hasn't floated to the top of the priority list yet.

I haven't put power on the bike yet. I am going through all the electrics with a fine tooth comb since the bike is completely unknown to me, no history. I've found a couple of not very good wiring issues from previous owners bodges.

I will soon be in a position to power the bike up now. But I want to be sure it's not going to burn out the wiring as soon as I put a fully charged battery on it and switch things on.

I had intended to pull the starter motor off to check the brushes and general motor condition. But I don't think I will now. I'll try it first. A functioning electric starter is essential for me though.

 

[bosco659]

I’d leave it and test it.. if she spins the motor, leave it alone. But that’s me..

 

[Its been a long time]

I’d leave it and test it.. if she spins the motor, leave it alone. But that’s me..

That's what I've decided to do.

The power connection stud on the motor is very recent. From what I can see in the service manual, that part isn't a normal service item. So I think it's quite likely the motor has been apart and given a thorough going through. Thinking about it now, it makes more sense to finish off everything else I'm doing and just trying the starter when I'm ready.

 

[Raymond]

. . . But I want to be sure it's not going to burn out the wiring as soon as I put a fully charged battery on it and switch things on . . .

Fuses*. Once you've been over and checked the wiring, your biggest headache is if something don't work - got to go over it again for for some targeted trouble-shooting. But if you've got fuses, you shouldn't have to worry about anything burning out.

* On the subject of fuses, there was a discussion a while back about cheap Chinese fuses. Lots of cheap fuses on ebay for example - best to avoid as they cannot be trusted to blow at the correct amperage. If replacing fuses, find some good European ones, worth paying a little more for peace of mind.

 

[Its been a long time]

Fuses*. Once you've been over and checked the wiring, your biggest headache is if something don't work - got to go over it again for for some targeted trouble-shooting. But if you've got fuses, you shouldn't have to worry about anything burning out.

* On the subject of fuses, there was a discussion a while back about cheap Chinese fuses. Lots of cheap fuses on ebay for example - best to avoid as they cannot be trusted to blow at the correct amperage. If replacing fuses, find some good European ones, worth paying a little more for peace of mind.

Point taken. But I can find just one fuse on the bike. In the red lead from the battery. Makes me nervous that there's just one fuse protecting every circuit on the bike. Hence me being super cautious before putting power on the bike.

Thinking about it. To first switch the bike on but not actually start it, maybe I should down rate the fuse to something much lower. Surprised that I cannot find the fuse rating in the Yamaha shop manual. I need to go and check what the amp rating of the fitted fuse is.

 

[Raymond]

If you are going over the bike's wiring, you could buy a fuse block to take say four blade fuses? Or some in-line single-fuse holders? The red lead battery to ignition is a good place for the fuse if there's only one - should be 20A IIRC. But you could add lower amp ones for say the ignition to coils, lights, indicators. Easy enough to wire them in.

 

[Its been a long time]

If you are going over the bike's wiring, you could buy a fuse block to take say four blade fuses? Or some in-line single-fuse holders? The red lead battery to ignition is a good place for the fuse if there's only one - should be 20A IIRC. But you could add lower amp ones for say the ignition to coils, lights, indicators. Easy enough to wire them in.

I'll think about this. On the face of it, putting a temporary 10a fuse in the fuse holder to power up but not start the engine might be a good thing to gain confidence. I can test each circuit in turn as I'll not get near 10a (120 watts) just testing circuits.

Then if I'm fully confident, put the original fuse in for start up. Thanks for the ideas, appreciated.

 

[Niels B]

I have overhauled and repaired several starter motors, what I found as the most common failure is the main connection where you screw on the lead wire, they tend to be beaten up or partly corroded away. The other typical issue is the stags the bolt the unit together - they often are impossible to loosen ( I have tried an abundance of different methods - few have worked ). The long stag are not available so I began using long allen bolts, which I modify so they fit in the “sunken” lid. I’m pretty sure this have been out for either testing or clean up - doubt anyone would put it back on without testing it first though. If you are worried about toasting wires you could disconnect the lead wire and use you battery with a couple of starter cables, one to ground and touch the positive on the lead wire connection - that should make it turn.

 

[Its been a long time]

I have overhauled and repaired several starter motors, what I found as the most common failure is the main connection where you screw on the lead wire, they tend to be beaten up or partly corroded away. The other typical issue is the stags the bolt the unit together - they often are impossible to loosen ( I have tried an abundance of different methods - few have worked ). The long stag are not available so I began using long allen bolts, which I modify so they fit in the “sunken” lid. I’m pretty sure this have been out for either testing or clean up - doubt anyone would put it back on without testing it first though. If you are worried about toasting wires you could disconnect the lead wire and use you battery with a couple of starter cables, one to ground and touch the positive on the lead wire connection - that should make it turn.

Thanks for the thoughts. Most helpful.

 

[jetmechmarty]

I’m in the remove and check it camp. I just ordered some M6 x 110 mm bolts on eBay. Direct from China. It’s good to clean it up and check it against the service manual. Yes, you have to be capable off removing those bolts after you strip the JIS heads and have new bolts handy. The starter connection should have a rubber boot over it. Maybe some dielectric grease would be appropriate here to protect the hardware from electrolytes.

 

[Niels B]

I’m in the remove and check it camp. I just ordered some M6 x 110 mm bolts on eBay. Direct from China. It’s good to clean it up and check it against the service manual. Yes, you have to be capable off removing those bolts after you strip the JIS heads and have new bolts handy. The starter connection should have a rubber boot over it. Maybe some dielectric grease would be appropriate here to protect the hardware from electrolytes.

Are the once you ordered similar to the original ? I searched high and low, but never found a supplier matching the type and size

 

[jetmechmarty]

Are the once you ordered similar to the original ? I searched high and low, but never found a supplier matching the type and size

The new ones are crosspoint, but not JIS. They are stainless and I won’t know how much of the bolt is threaded until they show up. Yes, they have countersunk heads.

 

[Niels B]

The new ones are crosspoint, but not JIS. They are stainless and I won’t know how much of the bolt is threaded until they show up. Yes, they have countersunk heads.

Keep me in the loop please - or did you purchase enough to start selling

 

[Niels B]

Keep me in the loop please - or did you purchase enough to start selling

My solution is not the best as it adds extra work making them fit as counter sunk - but it works

 

[jetmechmarty]

Keep me in the loop please - or did you purchase enough to start selling

Five bolts. Yes, stay in touch.

 

[jetmechmarty]

 

[Its been a long time]

The new ones are crosspoint, but not JIS. They are stainless and I won’t know how much of the bolt is threaded until they show up. Yes, they have countersunk heads.

Machine screws will be threaded right up to the head.

 

[Niels B]

Machine screws will be threaded right up to the head.

I modify these once, however would rather have the original type. Have not been able to find machine screws of the needed length