Stock Dual Disk VS Brembo

[adi1974]

Hi, I have a 78SE with dual disks and calipers. They are dragging somewhat (not fully releasing) so I was going to do an overhaul with new seals etc. I also need new lines and a new master cylinder (mine works but looks like the nylon reservoir has seen better days).

So I was wondering if I'm best off doing the overhaul and getting my stock dual set up working, or would this be a good time to change over to a Brembo set up?

If I did change over, should I do a single Brembo caliper and save weight or go for a dual Brembo set up seeing as I already have the rotor / disk?

Is there much advantage to the Brembo set up over stock or can dual stock be set up to be as effective?

The Brembo 65mm calipers seem pretty cheap to buy as a used pair but then I'd need mounts (I've seen the pandemonium ones). I'm just weighing up the pros and cons so any advice would be great. What would you do!?

Cheers
Adi

 

[arcticXS]

Hi Adi!
A single 320 mm Brembo disc, with a 4-piston Brembo caliper, is FAR superior to the stock twin disc setup, not to mention a LOT lighter, like 4 to 5 kilos (9 to 11 lbs)
However, in order to use the most common Brembo discs, from Ducatis, etc, you will need a 13 mm spacer between the disc and hub, in order to get enough clearance between spokes and caliper. If you look at some pictures at the Mule Motorcycles website, you can see Brembo discs and spacers.
On my -77 D, Euro model, I chose to use a custom made 320 mm ISR disc, with 23 mm offset, and a Brembo 4-piston caliper with 65 mm hole spacing, off a later model Ducati.
With a single 4+piston caliper, you will need a 13 mm master cylinder. A Brembo master is also around half a pound lighter than the OEM Yamaha one. So Brembo is the way to go!

 

[gggGary]

Depends a bit on how you ride.
After few years of suffering with stock brakes I got serious about improving them.
I did a one part at a time single disk upgrade that meets all my needs for how I ride. I used a mikes rotor because they look and are lighter than a stock one, tehn I changed to vesrah pads recommended by 650 central. But the real change came when I went to a 10mm master cylinder and Teflon (stainless) one piece brake line. Two finger braking to tire (Shinko) howl is predictable and controllable. I don't think it's up to track use like a modern sport bike dual set up but it handles my back road bombing with no problems.
I like the look of dual disks but the stock stuff makes you pay a large unsprung weight penalty.

Then again I really want to get this set up on the road too.

SV650 forks rotors calipers with an XS650 wheel. some alterations are needed to adapt it.
Just my ham handed bumbling.

 

[adi1974]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. Keep em coming. By the way I'm using Mag wheels

 

[retiredgentleman]

Here are a couple of pics of the Brembo calipers I installed on my 78 SE. The Brembo calipers and my stock rotors work very nicely together, without any rotor spacer required.

The 4 piston calipers give very powerful braking, much better than stock calipers. No need to spend money on other rotors, as the stock rotors (previously drilled by me) work great. I also use the stock master cylinders.

I made up the caliper adapter plates from 3/8" aluminum. I still have the templates for the adapter plates if you want a copy.

The front only required 1 shim washer. The rear needs 3 or 4 thick washers on the axle to compensate for the thickness difference as compared to the stock caliper mounting bracket.

The dual stock rotors make for to much unsprung weight in my opinion. The 4 piston Brembo calipers are a big upgrade from the single piston stock calipers.

Once you try the Brembos front and rear, you would never go back to a stock set-up.

The single Brembo on the front is excellent braking.....................dual Brembo on the front would be overkill in my opinion.,

 

[adi1974]

Thanks for the great replies guys. I'm swaying towards a single brembo set up. Just waiting to hear back from Pandemonium about the kit and calipers they have. Cheers

 

[scabber]

I run mike rotor and Ferodo platinum pads from 650 Central. Stock master and caliper not two finger but it stops twice as fast stock rotor and pads. Garys 10MM is better but I need the mirror mount. I might look into putting a sleve into a stock master. Over braking will get you in more trouble than more than a little under. I'am happy with the setup I have now. Whatever you are comfortable with is the best setup for you.

 

[adi1974]

Hey guys, thanks again for the help. I've just got my caliper and kit from Pandemonium. Can you help me with something I'm confused by? On the instruction video for the kit it says to drill out the caliper to 25/64ths. I'm in the UK so imperial confuses me for a start. I also dont really understand why it needs drilling in the first place, surely the adaptor should be drilled to match the fasteners used by brembo or yamaha (metric) and not drilled to match an adapter? Am I missing something?

Also what size bit would I need to do that? I doubt any of my bits will be correct so I'll have to order one. Can I do it with a hand held drill or will I need to find someone with a pillar?

Will I need to retap the thread? What to?

Really confused. I thought the adaptor would just bolt straight up to the caliper. I knew I had to do some filing to get the rotor to fit but assumed an adaptor would be dialled ready to go.

Please educate me guys
cheers
adi


ps. Really pleased with the speed of service and also that they sorted me out with a caliper. I'd be cool if the kit came with some clear instructions printed out though.

 

[adi1974]

Ah just looked at these again and I think I understand. I'm thinking you drill out the holes on the caliper so that the bolts supplied with the kit "bolt through" the caliper and then thread into the adaptor. I was thinking they would be threading through the caliper originally. So basically the drilling just gets rid of the threading on the caliper.

Is that right or have I still not got it?

 

[retiredgentleman]

Ah just looked at these again and I think I understand. I'm thinking you drill out the holes on the caliper so that the bolts supplied with the kit "bolt through" the caliper and then thread into the adaptor. I was thinking they would be threading through the caliper originally. So basically the drilling just gets rid of the threading on the caliper.

Is that right or have I still not got it?

Yes, I'd say you are correct. His kit has the bolt going through the Brembo caliper and threading into the adapter's thread. His bolt size requires a larger hole to be drilled in the caliper.

I did my mounting differently. My bolts go through my adapter first, and then thread into the Brembo factory made threads. Here's a pic of my set-up.

PS................don't forget to vote in the XSOTM contest!

 

[adi1974]

Thanks man. Makes sense now. I think i'd prefer it to thread as yours does so there's more thread being used in contact but I'm sure there's logic to it. I havent had chance to offer it up to the bike yet which will no doubt answer some questions.

How did the better braking affect your forks? A few people have mentioned to me that I might now need to upgrade since I'll be having a better anchor on the front. Anyone got any recommendations? Mines an SE with 35mm forks and the screw adjust in the top.

 

[gangstahats]

Thanks man. Makes sense now. I think i'd prefer it to thread as yours does so there's more thread being used in contact but I'm sure there's logic to it. I havent had chance to offer it up to the bike yet which will no doubt answer some questions.

How did the better braking affect your forks? A few people have mentioned to me that I might now need to upgrade since I'll be having a better anchor on the front. Anyone got any recommendations? Mines an SE with 35mm forks and the screw adjust in the top.

I sell a Dual Disc Set-up for XS650 -- The rotors I use are from XJ750 Seca - They are thinner, weight alot less and bolt right on . . .
Now about springs -- I installed a new set of Progressive Fork Springs from Mike's XS and they worked out great ! ! !

 

[gggGary]

I put in the Mikes XS cart emulators per his instructions. Seems like a good upgrade.
IMHO like gangstahats sez Sneca rotors are a good cheap upgrade, either single or double.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Thanks man. Makes sense now. I think i'd prefer it to thread as yours does so there's more thread being used in contact but I'm sure there's logic to it. I havent had chance to offer it up to the bike yet which will no doubt answer some questions.

How did the better braking affect your forks? A few people have mentioned to me that I might now need to upgrade since I'll be having a better anchor on the front. Anyone got any recommendations? Mines an SE with 35mm forks and the screw adjust in the top.

My 78 SE has the stock 35 mm forks, with the top adjusters set at the highest spring compression. They work very well, just as they are.

I'd say ride the bike after you change out the calipers, and see how you like it.

 

[XSLeo]

On your forks you might try changing the fork oil. If you haven't it's propbaly what came in the forks from the factory. When you refill them remove the springs and collapse the forks completely. Now put in about 8 oz or so of oil. Lift and lower the forks completely a few times to bleed out any air. Now use a tube os some sort. I use the plastic hose that came with my Miti-Vac. Mark the hose 6 inches from the end. Now slip this 6 inches down into the collapsed fork till the mark is at the top of the fork tube. Use some vaccumm to draw off the oil so it is 6 inches down from the top of the tube.
Repeat to the other fork.
This is more oil than reccommended but it compresses the air on top of the fork so it will dive less when braking.
If you want you can experement with different weights of fork oil. Thinner makes the fork act quicker to bumps, thicker slows the responce. Try 10w to start then 5w and 15w. It won't cost much to try them and you might find one is much better than others.
Leo

 

[I am Carbon]

I made up the caliper adapter plates from 3/8" aluminum. I still have the templates for the adapter plates if you want a copy.

.,

I would like a copy Sir for my upgrade. Thanks

 

[retiredgentleman]

I would like a copy Sir for my upgrade. Thanks

PM sent.

 

[adi1974]

Thanks for all the info. Great stuff. Cant really get those XJ750 Seca rotors in the UK I dont think.

I'll be putting in Hughs 2in lowering kit (which I also procured from Pandemonium) so I'll look at my forks then. Will your instructions change with lowering Leo? Cheers

Got confirmation from Pandemonium about drilling the callipers. Yes, its so the bolt goes through the caliper and then threads into the adapter plate (doesn't thread onto the caliper). SIlly me.

Got another decision to make..... The kit recommends filing down the caliper to fit the xs rotors / disks. I have a couple of buddies here in the UK that left their calipers alone and had their standard disks skimmed instead. What are the pros and cons of either route? Which would be best to do?

cheers for all the help. Love this forum

 

[retiredgentleman]

Thanks for all the info. Great stuff. Cant really get those XJ750 Seca rotors in the UK I dont think.

I'll be putting in Hughs 2in lowering kit (which I also procured from Pandemonium) so I'll look at my forks then. Will your instructions change with lowering Leo? Cheers

Got confirmation from Pandemonium about drilling the callipers. Yes, its so the bolt goes through the caliper and then threads into the adapter plate (doesn't thread onto the caliper). SIlly me.

Got another decision to make..... The kit recommends filing down the caliper to fit the xs rotors / disks. I have a couple of buddies here in the UK that left their calipers alone and had their standard disks skimmed instead. What are the pros and cons of either route? Which would be best to do?

cheers for all the help. Love this forum

If you plan to use the stock 7 mm Yamaha disks, I would grind down the Brembo calipers. I have no knowledge of the type of steel used in the stock disks, but I suspect they need the 7 mm for strength...................perhaps 6 mm would still be safe.

If you don't want to grind the calipers, best to find disks that are designed to be safe at 3 or 4 mm thick. Some thinner Ducati disks are a direct bolt on I believe.

We're talking about brakes here, so safety has to be a consideration. Technology has moved on and old steel disks were likely not made from the same quality of steel as the newer thin disks.

 

[XSLeo]

With lowered forks I think the air shock effect would be even more important. So yes the 6 inch down spec is a good start.
Start there and experiment with oil weights and maybe a higher oillevel of 5.5 or even 5 inches down might help. With lowered forks you will lose some fork travel. So increasing the oil level and using a heavier oil will help prevent bottoming out.
On the brake rotors, I got a set that the seller claimed they came off an XS1100. Slotted like in gangstahats pic. They may have come off an XS1100 but that don't mean it came from the factory that way. I think the XS1100 used the same rotors as the XS650, 7 mm thick. The ones I got are 5 mm thick. Much lighter than the 7 mm.
So do a bit of shopping around and you might find a thinner set. They used the same bolt pattern on many Yamaha bikes as well as other brands.
Leo