Suck Squeeze Bang Blow

kopcicle

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~Last time I introduced this thought on the web it was largely ignored . The time before that it was flamed by ignorant know it alls . I present it here just because I was bored or wanted to donate a peculiar thought to the forums . You be the judge . :D~

Suck Squeeze Bang Blow
or for the politically correct and exacting but humorless engineers '
Intake Compression Power Exhaust

There are two major pressure changes in a four stroke internal combustion engine , when you light the fire which is easy for you youngsters with your electronic ignition and when you let go of it . You go to people like Falicon with your cranks and A.P.E. or Branch with your heads . Pistons are weight matched within 1/8 gm or less .Even intake and exhaust ports are cc'd .Combustion chambers are volume matched within 1/4 cc or less . Some spend thousands on dyno time getting the perfect jetting or fuel map .
Then you adjust valves with a feeler gage ?
The valve clearances suggested by the manufacturer are just that a suggestion to keep you from holding a valve open or beating your valve train to death . Until Yamaha recently decided to experiment with 90 degree cranks all the inline fours used a flat (180 degree) crank with #1 and #4 at TDC and #2 and #3 at BDC . each pair firing alternately . Until the CBRXX no one thought to balance out this rocking couple but that's a story for another day . The point is why would you want to introduce any further variations in balance by scattering major pressure pulses over as much as 10 degrees of crank rotation ?
Use a positive piston stop to establish TDC and adjust the degree wheel to match a pointer . Insert the correct feeler gage between one exhaust valve and the rocker and adjust till there is a slight drag . So far this is basic a valve adjust . Now place a dial indicator on the spring retainer of this exhaust valve and preload it at least 0.060" . Pick some arbitrary lift distance like 0.030" and mark it on the dial . Rotate the crank until that valve has opened 0.030" and mark the degree wheel . If you started with #1 now go over to #4 and adjust the exhaust valve so there is that slight drag on the feeler gage and move the dial indicator to that retainer and preload it . When it has moved 0.030" look at the degree wheel . It should be 360 degrees out from #1 AND ON THE SAME MARK . Unless lady luck intervenes it won't be . Variations in cam indexing and tolerance as well as deformation of the top of the valve make it unusual in the extreme for all this to work with simply a feeler gage .
In the end all exhaust valves should be opening at the same place in degrees plus or minus 180 degrees at 0.030" lift and be within specified lash limits . If you have gone this far then repeat for the intakes even though the effect on the engine is not nearly as dramatic and closing more critical than opening .
Now of course when confronted selective shim valve adjustment you are limited to just how close you can get to ideal . Or are you ? If you have enough experience to have adjusted valves on an 8 valve kawasaki , Suzuki or other then you remember they came in half millimeter sizes ie 2.30 , 2.35 etc . I have sizes in 2.325 , 2.375 . If you think this is overkill imagine what you find in a factory race team's box of shims . I don't have to imagine it , I've seen it .
I do have a curious and humorous way of doing this that I have used to demonstrate the principal in a classroom and as a garage joke with friends . I'll set up the degree wheel ahead of time and expose the valve adjustment . I found a hose that just screws into the spark plug holes rather than continually removing the valve from my compression tester .
To the end of the hose I attach a rubber , yes a prophylactic , un-lubed , with a rubber band . The compression stroke inflates the "balloon" and the exhaust opening rapidly deflates it .If you really want to drive yourself crazy try the above procedure with the dial indicator and then repeat it with the balloon . I recommend a very little light oil on the seat . Now observe what a change of just 0.001" (insert a feeler guage between the rocker tip and valve or the cam lobe and "lifter" ) does in relation to opening in degrees . Then for those that obsess try just a 0.00025" or 1/4 thou change and record the difference in degrees at actual opening *. This "shade tree" device , with a little practice will also give a indication of low pressure cylinder sealing that a leak down tester will not unless equipped with gages costing several hundreds of dollars .

I'll attempt reason without anecdote or explanation .
If your cam specs are @ 0.040 lift and intake opens 19 degrees BTDC and closes 46 degrees ABDC and exhaust opens 34 degrees BBDC and closes 16 degrees ATDC ....
ALL exhaust valves are opening at 34 degrees before bottom dead center for their respective cylinder AND staying within acceptable valve clearances ( .007" to .010" ).
The lash or static clearance has far less impact on engine performance if kept within the manufacturer's specified limits than does adjusting the exhaust valves to open at a specific point in crank rotation .
I lifted representative specifications from an older megacycle 493-x1 cam

So it's up to you . Call it lazy to use just a feeler gage and get out simple tools and take a little extra time and get it right or use just a feeler gage and get close .

~kop

* 0.00025" or 1/4 thou @ actual lift was a difference of 4 degrees in exhaust opening measured on a SOHC Honda 750 . Admittedly this is the lead ramp and why lift is normally measured at some arbitrary lift like .030" but it does illustrate machining tolerances ~kop
 
dear kopcicle "antidisestableshmentarian" I consider myself a quite "regular" motorcycle enthusiast who visits this site for enjoyment as well as much appreciated assistance and information. So many great minds on this site do so politely assist total strangers, such as myself, with ideas and advice. Always useful. It seems you really do also have much to contribute. Unfortunately it seems in your case your image impression is hindering response. Your Avatar face is simply disturbing by choice and I'd bet most don't even attempt to pronounce that title next to it . I sure don't care to again. I strongly recommend if you truly do want more response to start with changes right there . Myself being a very self controlled verbally kind of guy, hope you do take this as a positive as we all need some advise.. -RT :cheers:
 
I have not as yet had to address this here however now seems to be as good a time as any .
Antidisestablishmentarianism is a political position that developed in 19th-century Britain in opposition to Liberal proposals for the disestablishment of the Church of England—meaning the removal of the Anglican Church's status as the state church of England, Ireland, and Wales. ~wilipedia

As I am conservative as well as Irish . This is a somewhat unpopular political position .
As for the Avatar . My actual countenance is at least as disturbing as the Max Cannon penned "Bug-Eyed Earl".

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Any questions ? About the original post that is . I'm done justifying my political position and personal choice of avatar verses actual countenance .

~Dennis
 
I always enjoyed Earl in that strip.
 
Interesting effort, point is taken with the engine valve lash. Personally, I've rebuilt my engine, used the trusty feeler gauges, broke it in and maintain it as a everyday rider.
I just get on it, ride it, thrash the shit out of it when I feel like it....then park it up until the following day. The engine is virtually indestructible, I've tried to blow mine up a couple of times, just never gets there I suppose.
They are not a race engine by far, if you put a decent cam and went apeshit on everything in a rebuild, well I think you would be slightly disappointed as to the performance and the bang for buck that you have invested to get the result
Nice pic too Dennis
 
Dennis..... Ain't that going just a bit overboard ? I mean setting your valve tapits with a dial indicator ? .... Granted it's gott'a be more accurate
and as you pointed out accuracy counts..... to a certain degree.... there comes a point in engine science and DO-ABILITY don't play well together any more.... and the valve system is one of those...ignition is another.... so in reality Close is close enough ! not because i didn't want to do a better job at setting the valves,...but what's the POINT ?.... at 4000RPM that small 4 degrees of diference that you pointed out to be so important will go by so fast the air molicules won't even see it ! the valves have to be open almost 1/8" before any sucking starts to happen at that speed simply because of the elasticity of the air.... so what does 4 degrees do ? ... this is a case of over thinking it buddy Yes ...your right... but what does that matter in the REAL WORLD?.....it's not like everyone is going to buy a dial indicator to set their valves with from now on....
I have to admit the Squeeze Suck bang Blow method of discribing the engines operation is Humerious ! but may not be wise to use that termology in church though ...just incase an ease dropper didn't catch that you were talking about engines ! LOL
.....my 2 coppers...
Bob...........
 
Good stuff; an english guy did a pretty well reasoned argument that the lash is too small for these engines to run their best. Note the early .006" .012" specs. I imagine marketing had a LOT to do with bringing the spec down so prospective customers didn't have to listen to a box of rocks hammering away in the dealer parking lot.
Another point is that it makes little sense to use a micrometer to set up the face angles on a 12 pound maul used in demolition work. I think you would have a vary hard time maintaining any clearance within 1 or 2 thou of an inch in the XS valvetrain. near as I can tell chipped valve stem ends and lash adjusts are endemic. The rockers have considerable side to side movement. By modern standards the machining of the cams is sloppy. I suspect that is true in typical small shop cam grinding equipment as well. An interesting SB here. couldn't find the dissertation on lash vs. duration and performance I wanted to repost.
 
...If you have enough experience to have adjusted valves on an 8 valve kawasaki , Suzuki or other then you remember they came in half millimeter sizes ie 2.30 , 2.35 etc...

Those are 50 micron (0.002") increments. Still, a little coarse.

...* 0.00025" or 1/4 thou @ actual lift was a difference of 4 degrees in exhaust opening measured on a SOHC Honda 750 . Admittedly this is the lead ramp and why lift is normally measured at some arbitrary lift like .030" but it does illustrate machining tolerances ~kop

A fun demonstration.

Try it with an additional twist. Do the "inflated prophylactic" demonstration in a cool 60-70°F environment. Then, without disturbing any settings, move the engine to a rather warm 90°F shopspace. Leave it there for a couple hours to warm up. Repeat the demonstration. Note the differences.

... it makes little sense to use a micrometer to set up the face angles on a 12 pound maul used in demolition work...

Haha, good one gggGary. I'm fascinated by studies in obsessiveness. Once you start diving into the miniscule world, the "noise floor" of previously ignorable items rise to entertaining levels. Like temperature, surface roughness, particulates gettin' in the way.

My cousin drives barely-running dilapidated beaters, but he will obsess over tire pressures, to the fractions of PSI. Never mind that the 20-year-old tires are near bald, skips a cylinder, or the thing pukes water and oil. Gotta get them tire pressures right!
 
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............. I'm fascinated by studies in obsessiveness. Once you start diving into the miniscule world, the "noise floor" of previously ignorable items rise to entertaining levels...........

I have buddy, works on a sychrotron. He could write a book on chasing "noise". One bit of signal noise that was driving them nuts, was finally traced to an HVAC relay in a nearby building. Just try to track down a tiny signal that only occurs a few times a day, seasonally.
 
~snip couldn't find the dissertation on lash vs. duration and performance I wanted to repost.

That thing I did (and lost somewhere) about increasing lift and duration with smaller clearances and decreasing lift and duration with larger clearances , with an ad hoc investigation into reduced camshaft base circles and definitions of "cheater camshafts" desiderata ad nausea ?

No idea what you're talking about ...

~kop
 
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