TCI is the only thing left, and still no start

[Iron_Eyes]

How's it goin,

This is my first post. I have a 1981 XS650 Special II. I've recently been having trouble starting the bike. At first, it wasn't starting with the electric, but you could still kick it off. Once it was running it ran all day long! You could ride for 5 mins, turn it off and it would start with both electric or kick every time afterwards. After a night or two the same problems would occur. Very frustrating...

The last time i got the bike to start, the electric didnt do it, so i kicked it off which took about 15 tries. The previous owner decided to upgrade from glass fuses to spade fuses and they did a poor job. As the bike was running i moved the fuses back to where they were hanging to put on the seat, and the bike just died. It didn't sputter, just died and it wouldn't start again.

So I started replacing parts that probably needed to be changed anyways. I got a new battery, new XS Performance dual coil, plugs, wires, caps (all from MIKESXS.net), fixed the fuse problem, and it still ont turn over. I checked with a volt meter to see how my power looked. I had 12.6 volts at the battery with the bike power ON, but when you hit the electric start the volts jump down to around 8-9. Also i pulled the spark plug out and tried to start again, but as I had the button depressed there was no spark visible until i let off the button and then it would spark real quick. Im pretty sure its my TCI motherboard thats causing the problem. It has the yellow and white diodes and there is dirt all over the board. Could that be the reason it wont start, or can someone tell me how to remedy this issue?

I would greatly appreciate any help!

 

[xjwmx]

To me it sounds like just a low battery, maybe a bad battery, or maybe a weak charging system. I would try to charge it using an automatic charger on the 2A or lower setting and give it overnight to charge, if needed. If it charges I bet you'll start right up, provided you finesse the right choke setting for whatever mood it's in.

 

[littlebill31]

Be careful when you pull the caps off of the plugs or have the plugs out. TCI does not like this.

 

[Iron_Eyes]

i tried using the charger but it still didnt start. there seems to be something drawing power other than the electric start because when i hit the start button there is no spark from the sparkplugs. i used a sparkplug to test if it had spark not a screwdriver or anything unsafe like that. i saw other posts where people had bad diodes and changing those was the solution. i figured id try that. when i took the tci box off tho the board was in good shape but pretty dirty. so i went to R/S and got some cleaner and the 1N4005 diodes. already replaced the diodes but was too worn out to put the bike back together tonight so ill see what happens tomorrow.

 

[xjwmx]

Changing those four diodes didn't hurt anyway. When you said the voltage was dropping so low when you hit the e-start, if made me think you might be below the threshold of where the TCI will work, which is around 9v or so I've read.

First thing I would do next is with a fresh battery see if you get a spark kicking it, with no starter dragging it down. If still no spark, it's real convenient to have a spare TCI to test against, which also gives you a spare to use in case you need it.

What you were describing was a lot like what I experience on the first start on a cold morning. Subsequent starts that day are a lot easier. If my battery is freshly charged it starts much easier that first time.

 

[Iron_Eyes]

Ok I got a new battery from mikesxs, I cleaned all of my grounds as well. I replaced the diodes in the tci box. I also didn't see any bad solder or anywhere that looked burned. I put the bike back together, changed the oil as well (not relevant but necessary). Nothing changed, Still no start or spark. Do you think it's a problem with the pickup coils or something like that? I have 12.5 volts on the battery

 

[azman857]

Time for a PAMCO and ATU(or other ignition system of your choice). Been there, done that.

 

[rwingsfan]

I agree. There are many smart guys that I respect on this forum that swear by the TCI unit, but I do not. They are old and I found myself chasing my tail and surely don't expect to make it home if your voltage drops for some reason. The Pamco will run on as little as 3 volts I think. That is a life saver that last few miles to home. The Boyer is good, but have not used it on a yamaha, did on my Triumphs though with good results.

Time for a PAMCO and ATU(or other ignition system of your choice). Been there, done that.

 

[petesxs]

The Japanese electronic ignitions are not known for being failure-prone. I suspect your reg/rect. If you replace the ignition, get the Boyer Bransden. It's superior to anything else and worth the extra $75. No factory put a mechanical advance with an electronic ignition, which should tell you something.

 

[rwingsfan]

Care to qualify your statement that the Boyer is superior to anything else? This is not the first time i have seen one of your posts that matter of factly state that something is superior, but nothing said to back that up.

The Japanese electronic ignitions are not known for being failure-prone. I suspect your reg/rect. If you replace the ignition, get the Boyer Bransden. It's superior to anything else and worth the extra $75. No factory put a mechanical advance with an electronic ignition, which should tell you something.

 

[tadd442]

sure got quiet around here......

 

[xjwmx]

The "electronic ignition with the mechanical advance" was designed to replace points. At least that's my understanding of it. That was its goal and it achieved it well. It doesn't say anything except just that

 

[Iron_Eyes]

Do y'all think it could be a stator/rotor problem? I was talking to a guy that had similar problems on a yamaha warrior quad and the stator was the issue. How would I be able to tell if my reg/rect was bad other than the bike not running?

 

[Iron_Eyes]

Oh and is the "banshee swap" really worth it?

 

[littlebill31]

The Haynes or Clymer manuals have all the "bench" testing info.
"Curly's" tips are a good source. I can't do anything, like post a link, from my phone, sorry.
And YES, the swap is worth it.

 

[rwingsfan]

Well worth it to me. If you are slick you can source the parts yourself or buy the whole kit from Punkskalar. His kit is complete. I just finished up installing a pm setup today on my 75, man it charges so smooth.

Oh and is the "banshee swap" really worth it?

 

[gggGary]

Throwing parts in is seldom a good way to fix electrical problems. Get the manual or a guide and trouble shoot. It's easy to check for 12 volts at the coil, see if the coil sparks, continuity on the needed wires, a few ohms resistance on any two of the three pick up coil wires at the plug behind the carbs. Fired up a no spark 81 Wednesday kept checking and tracing, old dirty connectors and a PO botched wiring harness were the main issues. Vroom, vroom.

 

[nj1639]

Sage advice there,G.

 

[petesxs]

My original reply about the superiority of the Boyer Bransden seems to have been removed. I said that it was superior for the reason stated. Its advance is electronic, not mechanical. A mechanical advance is going to wear and the timing could vary. Maybe this matters, maybe it doesn't but no factory put a mechanical advance with an electronic ignition because it needed precise ignition to satisfy EPA anti-pollution requirements. I have noticed that one weakness of the board is that everyone is in love with everyone else's stuff. Is the Banshee conversion worth it? No. It's a dumb idea to increase the gyroscopic effect of your crankshaft with it. If you ride a chopper, which many people here seem to, you wouldn't care because no chopper handles anyway. But if you're riding anything else a better choice is the Sparx permanent magnet alternator even if it costs more. Sometimes things cost more because they're better.

 

[rwingsfan]

Hmmmm...and you are not a fanboy of the Boyer and Sparxx? Is that YOUR weakness? I mean being that EVERYONE on this board has this weakness according to you. Fact of the matter is you have no idea what you are talking about, but go right ahead and spend your money on your so called better stuff. You come here and unequevicably state that this or that is superior and your arguement as to why is weak at best. The fact is both the Boyer and Pamco are great ignitions, both have their pros and cons, both performance wise and cost wise. Same goes for the PM vs Sparxx vs Stock charging system. All have advantages and disadvantages in costs and perfromance. To come in the forum and try to say that one is superior and the other is dumb is just.....dumb And the worst part is some new folks on the forum will hear you and blindly pass along such drivel as gospel. Oh BTW I doubt that Travis would remove any reply you might have had about the Boyer unless you were out of line.

My original reply about the superiority of the Boyer Bransden seems to have been removed. I said that it was superior for the reason stated. Its advance is electronic, not mechanical. A mechanical advance is going to wear and the timing could vary. Maybe this matters, maybe it doesn't but no factory put a mechanical advance with an electronic ignition because it needed precise ignition to satisfy EPA anti-pollution requirements. I have noticed that one weakness of the board is that everyone is in love with everyone else's stuff. Is the Banshee conversion worth it? No. It's a dumb idea to increase the gyroscopic effect of your crankshaft with it. If you ride a chopper, which many people here seem to, you wouldn't care because no chopper handles anyway. But if you're riding anything else a better choice is the Sparx permanent magnet alternator even if it costs more. Sometimes things cost more because they're better.