the perils of ignorance; it was "just" the plugs and caps

griennehornette

griennehornette

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This forum is an amazing resource. I daresay that without it, my poor bike would suffer.

After a fair amount of bumbling on my part, and guidance from the forum, I cleaned the carbs and got them synced. I got the right air filters for CV carbs. I learned that I was, in fact, loosening the cam chain tensioner, rather than tightening it. And I seem to have gotten the timing at least into the ballpark, if not spot on.

Yet the Hornette continued to sputter when I first got going. Discouraged, I started running searches on everything I could think of. It really didn't take long. I stumbled across the fact that all spark plugs are not the same. And I don't mean name brands.

Seems like new technology ain't all good for 40 year old bikes. I had no idea - until I found it on this forum - that spark plugs and caps have in more recent years, been fitted with resistors. Well, let's be honest... it's no big surprise that I didn't know that. My mechanical knowledge is tiny at best.

Anyhoo, ordered me some non-resistor caps and non-resistor plugs ('cause it seems like NGK BP7ES plugs are not off-the-shelf items in Canada.) While waiting for delivery, I did pick up some Autolite 63 plugs, which improved matters; but as far as I can tell, are still resistor plugs. Are there any non-resistor plugs besides the NGK BP7ESs?

Happy to report that with the NGK plugs and non-resistor caps, the bike doesn't sputter at all on start up. Smooth takeoff. Idles nicely at stops without stalling.

Spark plugs seemed like too simple a solution to me. I suppose the other things I did all helped too. But it's almost disappointing to think that just swapping plugs and caps - something even I can do in under 10 minutes - makes such a difference.

Almost. 'Scuse me, I'm going out for another ride ;-)
 
A spark plug is essentially a electrical component, all be it a simple one at first glance, but in the end(literally) they are the "ignitors"
I run ap63's on two of my bike kes. I like them. Readily available at most parts houses
 
The standard configuration is NGK BP7ES with 5K resister caps, what I have run successfully on dozens of XS650's with points, TCI, Pamco, and boyer ignitions
 
Dozens? I begin to see why you know so much, gggGary!

BTW, my neighbour's buddy saw my bike and told me he has a buddy with a '74 for sale for $1000 (Canadian). I've wondered about the protocol; should I post this somewhere on the site, for anyone who might be looking? Or is that just unnecessary?
 
angus67 said:
A spark plug is essentially a electrical component, all be it a simple one at first glance, but in the end(literally) they are the "ignitors"
I run ap63's on two of my bike kes. I like them. Readily available at most parts houses
Click to expand...

Thanks Angus! The AP63s seemed fine while I ran them. The NGKs arrived in the mail, so I put them in; but if it's not a problem to run resistor plugs with non-resistor caps, I'll go back to the AP63s. Easy to get.

I did notice that when I pulled the AP63s to put the NGKs in, the left AP was a nice chocolate brown, and the right was completely black. This has been the case every time I've pulled the plugs. I have not yet pulled the NGKs, to see if non-resistor plugs changed that at all.
 
I don't see anything wrong with using non-resistor plugs and non-resistor caps unless you use a radio and the radio doesn't work well. I used automotive type caps once and will never do that again, the NGK caps are made much better with a much better connection to the sparkplug and the wire. So, for me, I like the non-resistor plugs and NGK resistor caps.

WHAT CAPS DID YOU USE?

Scott
 
NGK makes a very nice non-resistor cap the LZFH .....

NGKLZFH.jpg


I used them when I ran points. They're even more compact than the resistor caps. When I installed my Pamco, I switched to the 5K ohm caps. For some reason, most electronic ignitions require you use them.
 
Hmmm. I ordered the caps from Mikes North. The look just like the photo 5twins posted. And they are for sure more compact, as I almost couldn't connect, after trimming half an inch of wire before installing them.

I can check the part number when I get home. Previously, I had (longer) NGK caps. Dunno what kind; but I assume they have resistance in them.
 
I'm gathering that the consensus seems to be: it's OK to run resistor caps OR resistor plugs; but not both. With points, of course.

Mr2Wheel, nope, I do not have a radio on the bike. So that's not a problem if I go both caps and plugs non-resistored.

I was hoping that getting rid of the resistance would clear up the sooty plug. Based on this thread conversation, I fully expect to pull the right plug tonight, and find it sooty. If I'm understanding correctly, sooty plug ain't about the strength of the spark; but like gggGary said, something like the floats.

Ah well... on the bright side, I'm getting better at cleaning carbs. Twice already this season, before this thread; now a third time to clean and take care of the float stuff (as per the manual). Not a bad skill to have ;-)
 
griennehornette said:
Ah well... on the bright side, I'm getting better at cleaning carbs. Twice already this season, before this thread; now a third time to clean and take care of the float stuff (as per the manual). Not a bad skill to have ;-)
Click to expand...

....excellent, I will drop by with my carbs and a few BEvERages, and you can clean mine while I sit and watch - and of course contribute helpful comments.....

:D
 
You don't want to run more than one instance of resistance with any of the ignition systems, points or electronic. Some of the more powerful electronic ignitions with more powerful coils may push through it OK but as you've discovered, the wimpy stock points ignition may not. As I mentioned, some amount of resistance is called for with the electronic ignitions, but no need to over-do it. You're only robbing spark power if you do.

A weak ignition could cause black plugs. You have 2 coils. The one on the black plug side may be going bad or getting weak. That might also explain the stumbling you had with the resistance in the lines. You could swap the coils side to side and see if the black plug follows to check it. That would be easier than a total carb teardown and cleaning. That's what I'd try first. Also check the connection of the plug wire at the coil to make sure it's clean and good, and if the wires are originals, replace them.
 
Indeed - Lucille has been running increasingly erratically lately and I am pretty sure it is due to the original coils really starting to die. I am going to replace everything with PAMCO parts including the e-advancer plus I will go to modern coils etc.
 

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