Upgrade Brakes vs. Frone End Swap?

[gggGary]

RG have you ridden a late model sport bike hard? Trust me a stock XS650 brake in proper working order is "wooden". My old CB900F had good brakes it was the first bike I owned that did I could do 2 finger stoppies and not be worried about over doing it. IF the front brake is good you don't use the brake brake much because the wheel is barely touching when you are in the front brake hard. I don't ride that way much on this type bike and I have to stay away from seriously fast sport bikes because even at this old age I tend to ride em like they designed to do and the MAN don't stand for that. I got rid of an FZ1 pronto last year, my license would not have survived the summer, even if I did.

 

[shotgunjoe]

I will drop my pennies on this one... even though this thread has been thoroughly covered at this point.

Returning to stock length forks is a fairly cheap "upgrade". This will restore the proper frontend geometry for your bike. Rake/trail figures will fall in line, and will be a significant improvement. My forks are lowered, I am sitting at an effective rake of 24 degrees, and it works well. (my buell was 21 degrees)

If you do decide to keep the stock forks, the next "upgrade" is a braided steel line. The old rubber line is probably crap by now, so even replacement rubber lines would be an "upgrade", but with a braided line is a similar cost... might as well.

There are several writeups for caliper "upgrades", among them is dual calipers, 4 piston calipers, etc. I would save this for last. You will be able to reuse the braided line you bought if you do this part correctly. I personally like the FZR blue spot caliper thats floating around... seems to me to be the simplest to do, and fairly inexpensive.

After you have done all of the above, if your brakes aren't adequate... maybe you need to change the nut behind the bars.

 

[gggGary]

"Sport" brakes need "sport" rubber between them and the road too.

 

[shotgunjoe]

"Sport" brakes need "sport" rubber between them and the road too.

Excellent point.

 

[5twins]

I'll definitely report back on the Ferodo pads and Minton modded forks once I install them. Gary, if you have a set of '77 forks in your stash, you may want to pull them apart and have a look. I really think the damper rods and tubes are made to a higher standard than the '78 and newer ones. That's why I'm using them.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Gary, now that I'm chronilogically challenged, I don't ride any bikes "hard". I know this may be shocking, but I seldom ever exceed the speed limits on highways and streets. I'm the kind of rider your mother always wanted you to be. The police will never make any money off of me for speeding

The stock brakes on my bike work just fine for a 50 HP bike (45 in Calgary). Yes, I've seen the 150 HP+ crotch rockets wizz by me, and they need all the braking that dual disk, multi piston calipers can deliver.

 

[Misterobotto]

These guys are your buddies, good advice from all and I hope you don't follow it.
And report on a new exotic front end setup instead!
PS I also have a set of the Mikes XS knockoff cartridge emulators in a bin somewhere.

Love it!!! Maybe once I get everything figured out with this bike, I'll try my hand at a ground up build and do something wild.

At this point, it seems like the best thing to do is to slowly push the limits of the stock front end, and if it's not enough... I'll start getting silly.

Looks like I'll be ordering some fork tubes, tapered bearings, and brake lines tonight. I wasn't seeing them at 650central.com, are the fork tubes at Mikesxs adequate? Gary, you also mentioned getting a larger bore master cylinder... What size would you recommend? I'm assuming this could have a big effect on the feel of braking.

Now I can start thinking about getting this Lazy Boy seat the heck off my bike.

 

[5twins]

Consider good used stock tubes as an option. In fact, one of the chopper guys may trade you straight up if your extended ones are in nice shape.

 

[oldbiker]

hi guys,,,, will a xs1100 set of 1980 slotted discs fit my 34mm tubes?? on my 1976 frame.... regards oldbiker

 

[ReycleBill]

pretty much only california coast highway type stuff or flat track racing you need to ever worry about that.

I take it you've not much experience with the Blue Ridge Mountains... And I don't mean that easy peasy 45mph Blue Ridge Parkway.

 

[gggGary]

XS1100 rotors are bolt on to the 35mm fork set up. I think the offset is different on the 34mm rotors

 

[sgallaty]

I would go in this order :->

learn to ride better

stock geometry

valve eliminators

"overfill" shocks by 1oz

learn to ride better

bronze bushings on rear swingarm

check shock springs and either replace if shot or put some spacers in to beef them up (econoratbikecheap method)... that basically means to drop some 2-3 inch long 7/8ths dia pvc pipe sections on top of the springs to compress them)

learn to ride better

uprated brake pads (that are compatible with stock rotors)

check rotor for grooving/glazing (probably don't have this problem)

replace brake lines with braided steel, or just replace with fresh ones

learn to ride better

fork brace

'better' front tire (low profile metzlers)

learn to ride better
--

as someone else said, the nut behind the gas tank is the biggest factor in bike handling. We all have room to improve our riding skills, and the only way to do that is to take your bike to the limits of handling and figure out how to handle it there.

If you don't, you can't possibly know what to do when you need to do something or else.

 

[jmcadoo]

No front brake = death!

About 35 years ago I was passed on a local street by a biker riding a chopper with no front brake, and no helmet. He was probably doing 35-40 mph when the truck pulled out in front of him about two blocks ahead of me. He did not hit the truck, but the bike went down, he flew up in the air, and by the time I got to him, he was long gone. I believe a front brake could have made a difference.

I will never ride without a front brake.

Jeff

 

[Misterobotto]

Consider good used stock tubes as an option. In fact, one of the chopper guys may trade you straight up if your extended ones are in nice shape.

I think I'll just go with the new ones and try to sell the used ones later. I'm way too impatient to have my bike sitting there without a fork tubes while wait for the exchange to happen.

I like that suggestion Blue, especially since this "Nut" could use a lot of work. I also like that by doing this gradually, I will really appreciate the effect of each upgrade... although I might move the braided lines higher up the list.

 

[lassenc]

I'm running dual disc and I feel that the lever is quite hard, so I am thinking of going with a smaller bore size to give a softer feel. Would that be the correct way to go about it?

 

[gggGary]

How do you mean hard? Have you overhauled hte master cylinder ? A blocked port in the master cylinder can give a "false" hard feel, till one day the brake drag gets so bad the bike stops.

 

[lassenc]

Well there is only a few milimeters from the braking starts till its a stoppie/squeel, you know what I mean.

Haven't overhauled it, it's outside is in too bad a condition to do that.

 

[sgallaty]

Yes, a bad brake ratio will give you that feel. You need a smaller caliper so that your 'work ratio' of lever motion to braking is more reasonable.

 

[gggGary]

I doubt he's going to change calipers master maybe.......... what set up do you have? A factory dual disk or was the second disk added to a single disk set up. I would suggest overhaul before replacement. But I agree MC's are about as cheap to replace as fix. Can't make a suggestion as to change till we know what you got. There is a MC to caliper sizing guide here; http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm generally thought to be top notch advice.

 

[gggGary]

PS that very hard lever / no travel DOES sound like a blocked port in the master, that can quickly get dangerous.
If your rotors are hot after a short ride the blocked port goes to near certainty. Hot rotors / spongy lever points to stuck caliper piston.