Video of bogging and backfires with low voltage, cant figure out the problem

[peanut]

OK got some news!

Took bike out for a spin with all wires from PMA/reg rec disconnected and she ran perfect!! voltage dropped steadily down as I continued the ride but she ran just fine! ---Thanks Peanut!

!

thats great news.... great job with the meticulous and systematic checking

When you get it sorted would you do another video ?
the bike looks and sounds fantastic and I'm sorely tempted to cafe mine .

 

[Red Beard]

Without removing the rotor (Damn specific tools) I checked what I could see on those bolts by looking through the rotor (it has some holes through it) and they all have their split washers fully seated (end touching end) if that makes sense, and the nylon bolts on the sides are fully seated as well, So i don't think its a loose bolt issue I sure wish it was though!

 

[Red Beard]

Sure Peanut I'll post another vid once she is up and running right! Thanks again for the help!

As far as running a cafe, it was fairly inexpensive, handmade seat was only 25-35$ and cleaning out the stock air box area for that empty look just took some clever rearranging of the wiring, clip-on's, and headlight bracket, and tail light were the only pricey things (and even then they were not bad) Just removed rear fender and chopped the front fender to retain a little bit of fork bracing.

 

[pamcopete]

OK got some news!

Took bike out for a spin with all wires from PMA/reg rec disconnected and she ran perfect!! voltage dropped steadily down as I continued the ride but she ran just fine! ---Thanks Peanut!

So that tells me its either a PMA or a Reg/Rec issue!
This is a fairly new PMA and reg/rec that i ordered from TC bros on the 27th of Feb this year.

My suspicion is the PMA is not working since the Reg/ Rec passed the diode test. However I am still going to attempt Petes test and see what happens.

So Pete when I wire in that battery it should look like the diagram below correct? Only Disconnect the 3 yellow wires coming from the PMA but not the red/ green for the reg/rec? And attach battery power to the red wire that travels from pamco to the ignition coil?

thanks again for the help everyone! Hopefully the PMA is still in some kind of warranty, that thing wasn't cheap!

Looks like you have already done this test, but to answer your question, your diagram is correct. Be sure that the kill switch is off when doing the test.

 

[pamcopete]

OK got some news!

Took bike out for a spin with all wires from PMA/reg rec disconnected and she ran perfect!! voltage dropped steadily down as I continued the ride but she ran just fine! ---Thanks Peanut!

So that tells me its either a PMA or a Reg/Rec issue!
This is a fairly new PMA and reg/rec that i ordered from TC bros on the 27th of Feb this year.

My suspicion is the PMA is not working since the Reg/ Rec passed the diode test. However I am still going to attempt Petes test and see what happens.

So Pete when I wire in that battery it should look like the diagram below correct? Only Disconnect the 3 yellow wires coming from the PMA but not the red/ green for the reg/rec? And attach battery power to the red wire that travels from pamco to the ignition coil?

thanks again for the help everyone! Hopefully the PMA is still in some kind of warranty, that thing wasn't cheap!

Looks like you have already done this test, but to answer your question, your diagram is correct. Be sure that the kill switch is off when doing the test.

 

[Red Beard]

Here is a video of the bike running with out the PMA and the Reg/Rec, Sorry in the video I said only the Reg/Rec unplugged but it was the PMA too.

Anyways I sent an email to TC Bros asking about an exchange, we will see what they say.

 

[TLCbobber]

Here is a video of the bike running

and the scores are in for the redbeard final. stock charging system 1, PMA nil.
nice to see it goin well, thanks for the croggy.

 

[peanut]

Here is a video of the bike running with out the PMA and the Reg/Rec, Sorry in the video I said only the Reg/Rec unplugged but it was the PMA too.

Anyways I sent an email to TC Bros asking about an exchange, we will see what they say.

sounds fantastic you've obviously got everything pretty spot on .


You may still have an issue with the reg/rect /PMA
but I still think you may also have a U/S battery that is not holding a charge. Its not the voltage that counts its the amperage that the battery retains that counts !

These batteries are not designed to be left to go flat like a leisure battery ,they need to always be kept above 11V by trickle charging or there is irreversible damage to the battery .

I recognised your problem because I have just had the same issue on my bike. A flat battery was the last thing I suspected because it had only been used for a few minutes from new but it had been left to go completely flat a few times over the past 2 years .

I put a new battery on and the bike now starts and goes like stink.

 

[pamcopete]

Here is a video of the bike running with out the PMA and the Reg/Rec, Sorry in the video I said only the Reg/Rec unplugged but it was the PMA too.

Anyways I sent an email to TC Bros asking about an exchange, we will see what they say.

Just a side note here: The PAMCO kept going all the way down to 7 Volts!

 

[Red Beard]

Well she gets ridden nearly every day before this but you might be right peanut, I might have to buy a new battery and just test that theory, I was running an ATV battery and a capacitor inline, both of which were new as of March 2015. And she never sat for over a few days in the garage, maybe just a piss poor battery and a Pma/reg/rec that wouldn't charge

 

[Red Beard]

Just a side note here: The PAMCO kept going all the way down to 7 Volts!

Haha good point Pete, that's one hell of a product you make!

 

[Red Beard]

Also I heard back from Josh at TCbros the very same day I messaged them, and I am fully covered, good guys over there for sure!

I'll run a fresh battery once I get the new system just to make sure there's no added stress on the charging system too just to be safe.

 

[peanut]

the other test you could do is to fit an Ampmeter and see how much load there is on the battery with the PMA disconnected and the engine running. Could be that you have a parasitic drain somewhere like a partial short etc.

Not sure what amp/hour battery you are using but whatever ampage it is,.. it needs to be able to store and supply your bikes electrical loads faster than the charging system recharges it or the voltage will just keep dropping ...like a hole in ya bucket

 

[Red Beard]

Well an amp meter is only about 10$ so I might pick one up and check, the battery I was running is a 12v, .4 amps, and 3ah capacity, for my kickstart only with LED tail lights and flashers and stock headlight. Might look into a larger capacity, any recommendations?

 

[peanut]

3Ah ? thats probably not enough especially if your charging system is iffy or you are using original lights.

The problem is the battery you have fitted has a fixed limit to how quickly it can be recharged during use.

if the stop light ,flashers and other stuff etc are drawing power faster than the battery can replenish ,it won't matter how powerful your charging system is . If your battery has lost some of its Ah capacity it could be discharging faster than it can be charged

I like the analogy of the leaking water bucket with a hole in it and a hose filling it up.


Original battery is 14Ah so I would aim for at least a 6Ah unless you are using all LED's or have a battery size restriction . Others with more experience than me might have a better suggestion

 

[Red Beard]

Ok so I found a 12v 5.5 ah, it's a yammy RD350 battery that fits the dimensions I need. What do y'all think? or maybe just do a capacitor only ...hmmmm....

 

[peanut]

mmm well with a battery at least you'd get a uniform output regardless of engine revs. (not sure about capacitor output at low revs and lights on)
Plus you'd get some warning if the charging system suddenly developed a fault and stopped charging the battery a battery would see you home without being stranded.
Nver run a cap so I can't comment really

 

[Red Beard]

OK here's an update y'all.

-Got the new reg/rec from TC Bro's installed with plenty of slack in wires and triple checked all connections.

-Got new battery that is 6ah and 12V, threw it on the trickle charger for a day before install

Went for a test ride today :

Bike felt good except at no point did it ever go above 11.9 V..... Not even at 2/3/4000 RPM's
Ran it for about 20 mins around town and it would fluctuate a bit between 11.5 - 12.3, but always come back to around 11.9 while rolling around.....

From what I understand the PMA should be charging out 13.5 V around 3000 RPM correct?.....

 

[I am Carbon]

OK here's an update y'all.

-Got the new reg/rec from TC Bro's installed with plenty of slack in wires and triple checked all connections.

-Got new battery that is 6ah and 12V, threw it on the trickle charger for a day before install

Went for a test ride today :

Bike felt good except at no point did it ever go above 11.9 V..... Not even at 2/3/4000 RPM's
Ran it for about 20 mins around town and it would fluctuate a bit between 11.5 - 12.3, but always come back to around 11.9 while rolling around.....

From what I understand the PMA should be charging out 13.5 V around 3000 RPM correct?.....

I havent read the rest of your thread but from what I read from this post good chance stator or wires coming from stator is problem.
this PDF at link is so damn good you should save a copy for safe keeping.
I would and do when checking modern charging system is check the stator by disconnecting it from reg/rec setting multimeter to AC voltage to see what each leg is charging at the three white wires coming the stator, think of the wires as A,B,C. with the reg/rec disconnected start up engine check voltage from AB idle and at revs around 3000rpm then check BC idle and revs around 3000rpm then CA at idle and at revs around 3000rpm note the voltages. here is a video of the test.

 

[Red Beard]

Thanks carbon! As soon as I get a free day I'm going to test the stator, I'm pretty sure you are right and that is now my prime suspect, thanks for the good info! I will post as soon as I find something out!

Ps that PDF is gold, thanks again!