What spoked disc/hub to use?

[kopcicle]

http://www.joewiseguy.com/aboutus.html
http://stores.ebay.com/wiseguys-choppers-and-customs

By the way Gary what's your take on "normal" tires on the CM profile rim ?

~kop

 

[gggGary]

Kop I ran into that deal for the first time while researching bead humps in a recent thread. I found a guy who said a shop told him "completely off the record" he'd wrap the bead hump and tapered seat in electrical tape and go for it. Not so sure about that. Harley said scrap the rims. Here's the SB

So I'm sure there are bunch of them hanging from shop rafters.



Well you know how it goes, it was hard to get heads up rear hub comparisons All weights are less axle caliper carrier and spacers. all weights are with rotors KZ05 rotor on the KZ750 hub the KZ750 with a tire and tube was 48 pounds. the GS1000 sans tire and tube was 28 pounds. A bare GS hub with rotor but no sprocket was 19.1 pounds on an accurate scale.
kwak



bare GS1000

 

[gggGary]

If money is no object these are the cat's PJ's.
http://www.flattrackaccessories.com/RWheel.shtml

Less sprocket and rotor ~$600 all laced up to your choice of new rim.

 

[slug]

If money is no object these are the cat's PJ's.
http://www.flattrackaccessories.com/RWheel.shtml

Less sprocket and rotor ~$600 all laced up to your choice of new rim.

I am running something very similar on my xt500 tracker project. I sourced an A&A Racing flip flop hub and can run a wide range of sprocket sizes with a 10.5 disc. I have it laced to an 18" wm4.5 sun with buchanan spokes. This setup is awesome and extremely easy to service, change sprocket, etc.

I also have a custom cush drive rear disc hub to accommodate a 32 tooth sprocket for my xs650 project. This will be laced to a 18" wm4.5 sun as well. I did extensive research and came to the conclusion this was one my only option for a spoked, disc, cush drive rear that will work with the xs650's small rear sprocket dilemma.

 

[nj1639]

So, any new and improved conversions out there for a spoke set up using the stock rear disc components?
Just scored a '78 Special and am liking the rear disc.......though not so much a fan of the mags.
Simple stupid would be good.

 

[kopcicle]

new and improved ? Still using the KZ hub .

I was asked elsewhere so ...

The rear caliper is bone stock 2F0 . I was careful to leave as much of the conversion stock as possible . With the un-modified KZ750B LTD M1 twin 18" disc brake hub and rim the Honda disc centers in the caliper once .200" is taken off the diameter . Now one caution , the disc was "marked" CB200C but I did not take it off myself so I won't swear to it . I'm told that the KZ305 is very similar also so ya pays yer money and takes yer chances . I did turn down one side of the rear hub and I believe it was the sprocket side . I'll know more in a week or so . As the project stands the disc is centered in the caliper and the sprockets are so nearly in alignment that I may be able to let it go . I did have to futz with spacers for hours but it fits . I should say almost fits . I'll have to pull the wheel toward the drive side about .250" to put it on center line but with all else falling into place I'm far beyond complaining. I had considered the modification of the front hub to carry sprocket and disc but going without the dampener was more than I or the gearbox and transmission could tolerate .

the rest is in the sig line ...

~kop

 

[arcticXS]

I often think about this very thing. Couldn't someone with a bit of skill take a mag disc wheel, cut out the hub, Then turn down the area just inside the disc rotor and sprocket so that you could mount a flange that could be drilled for spokes. This way you could turn mag hubs into spoke hubs.
If this could be done You could drill 36 holes in these flanges for using stock 18 inch rims or drill it for any number of spokes so you can use any rim.
If this could be done then the hub would definitely use bearings and axle's as well as spacers that fit our swing arms. No problem with sprockets or rotors. Anything that would fit a stock wheel would fit this hub.
It might be easier to get a new hub built to use as such. This might prove better if it could be built to use a cush drive.
Leo

XSLeo,
I have seen Honda CBX550 Comstar front hubs modified like you describe, by machining and adding SS spoke flanges. I guess some like the look of these enclosed disc hubs, since they sort of look like a drum.

The Talon hub for a KTM I used for my spoked disc rear wheel, will accept a 36 tooth sprocket. Still a bit low gearing for most, I suspect. Should be OK for our Norwegian speed limits and extremely high fines when caught......around 1000 US$ for doing 110 kmh in an 80 kmh zone.

 

[pago cruiser]

Lets try a thread resurrection...

Hey kopcicle - On that KZ750 rear wheel caliper holder - do you recollect how much you had to take off the appx 1" thick aluminum mount? I think that's close, as I am doing this from memory.
I just picked one up, an it looks like I have to mill about 1/2" off the thickness of the mount (where the axle goes through) in order to get it to fit into the swingarm. Seems... excessive?

Both the KZ750 wheel and caliper/mount came from ebay - so either the mount indeed needs to be trimmed this much... or its not a correct part?

TIA

 

[racerdave]

No no, no no,you can't have that no mo. Seriously the guy that one offed it ground off his usual ID mark and swore the owner to secrecy.
You could show the pic to gordanscott see if he's dumb enough to attempt it??? The can is a duck aftermarket piece $$$$$

The pipe is plain steel with multiple oil wipes when it's hot as can be.

OK, since this old thread has been brought back up, GGG what do the oil wipes on a hot pipe do? Coming up on 2 years since I sold the tracker and I'm getting itchy

Good thing there is snow in the Northwoods!

 

[gggGary]

Stop by on the way home Racer Dave I have a salve for that itch.
Check the pic of those head pipes, the oil turns the pipe a bronzy rainbow color and kind of rust proofs it. To the casual eye it looks like titanium. You have to keep applying it.

 

[kopcicle]

Lets try a thread resurrection...

Hey kopcicle - On that KZ750 rear wheel caliper holder - do you recollect how much you had to take off the appx 1" thick aluminum mount? ~snip

more like necro-posting but I don't mind . I used a stock 2F0 rear hanger (looking back I wasn't that specific, oops) .
I don't have the spacer widths handy but it wasn't that big a deal to make them . The real issue was finding a rotor with the correct offset/dish, bolt circle and pattern, center hole, thickness and last but not least diameter . I'm not getting senile by any means but I never fully verified that it was a Honda CB200 rotor . However others have verified the identification and the issue of the rotor being .200" to large in diameter . The stainless/nickel steel used in the Honda rotor is a biotch to machine . One, take too small a cut and it rings like a bell while work hardening under the cut making the next more difficult . Two, take too large a cut and the heat buildup expands the rotor and what you thought was a .015" cut becomes a .022" cut , enough to destroy the insert at best and fold the tool holder as well.Three, Cut too fast and the insert dies a wailing death . Four, Cut too slow and the chip turns to goo on the insert .In short take it to a competent machinist, tell him its gooey nickel steel, is a biotch to machine, that you understand its not a normal deal, and try to cut a deal .

I'm fortunate that I have large machines in the family I can use . Still it took two inserts and .015" a pass for 15 passes if you include the setup and finish pass. I stayed within conservative surface speeds for general stainless steel on the particular machine and still it was nearly an hour and a half NOT including tool or part setup .
The above is from memory not from notes so there may be discrepancies . YMMV

~kop

 

[pago cruiser]

Thanks for the reply;
but guess I was a little unclear on my question.
I have a KZ750 hub, caliper, caliper arm, and disc. I can assemble them together, all riding on the axle. But when holding up to fit the swingarm, the assembly is about 1/4" wider than the swingarm ID: it looks like I need to mill about 1/2" off the caliper arm boss where the axle goes thru it. Which leave the caliper arm at about 1/2" thick, or roughly 1/2 its original thickness.

Maybe not a big deal - or maybe the caliper arm splits and catastrophically fails after 6 months of use, jamming the caliper in between the tire and swingarm, causing the rear wheel to lock up whilst I am having a fun time on a twisty mountain road, sending me over the edge of a 2000 foot cliff.

Maybe.

Or maybe the caliper mount I received is wrong...

 

[kopcicle]

pago cruiser ,
check your PM ...
~kop

 

[gggGary]

Yes the KZ swing arms have more room between them. I have one of those set ups but have avoided using it so far, I've dragged it out several times then thought it just needs to much work to use, the sprocket flange needs a lot of work to align the chain drive. It's also a heavy SOB. Not to mention I'm lazy and always looking for an easier way out. I have a spoke disk rear GS750-1000 hub that is an easier "make fit" BUT the spoke flanges are kind of close to each other, that geometry bugs me. Worry a bit about a flexy rim/hub connection.

 

[AGZ447]

Hello,
Sorry to bring this thread up again, but looking like many for a rear disc conversion,
I would like to understand if the KZ 750 rear hub can fit the XS650 !??
Did someone succeed ? All advices are welcome !
Thx for your answer

 

[racerdave]

Yes the KZ swing arms have more room between them. I have one of those set ups but have avoided using it so far, I've dragged it out several times then thought it just needs to much work to use, the sprocket flange needs a lot of work to align the chain drive. It's also a heavy SOB. Not to mention I'm lazy and always looking for an easier way out. I have a spoke disk rear GS750-1000 hub that is an easier "make fit" BUT the spoke flanges are kind of close to each other, that geometry bugs me. Worry a bit about a flexy rim/hub connection.

Really? The GS750 probably had 1.5 times the XS650 hp. The GS1000 had nearly twice the hp of a XS650 and I don't recall any issues with the hub. My 79 GS1000 with wires never had problems.

 

[CoconutPete]

Hello,
Sorry to bring this thread up again, but looking like many for a rear disc conversion,
I would like to understand if the KZ 750 rear hub can fit the XS650 !??
Did someone succeed ? All advices are welcome !
Thx for your answer

If money is no object, head on over to Cognito Moto. They make a rear disc hub now.

 

[gggGary]

Really? The GS750 probably had 1.5 times the XS650 hp. The GS1000 had nearly twice the hp of a XS650 and I don't recall any issues with the hub. My 79 GS1000 with wires never had problems.

That's what's on Madness now, it will get tested. Not that it's weak just that the hub flange to flange distance is on the narrow side. That does not contribute to keeping the rim located rigidly side to side. We will see if any issues crop up. A lot of thing s that were considered to be "just fine" in the 70's are not so great now.
If you go looking at modern spoke hubs there is a much greater spread between the flanges it has to help with reducing any side to side flex.


It looks pretty!

 

[AGZ447]

If money is no object, head on over to Cognito Moto. They make a rear disc hub now.

Thanks ! I saw it : too expensive for me for the moment !
Thats' why I keep on looking for alternative possibilities !

 

[gggGary]

The Suzuki wheel isn't exactly plug and play. The factory rim is period narrow. 2.15/18 IIRC The axle is 20mm and I think it will fit with the the XS swing arm and axle, though this bike has a custom one off swing arm and axle. The sprocket hub has different bolt spacing and ID, Stock Suzuki chain was 630. I had to turn about 5mm (guess) off the face to align the chain. I was satisfied this did not compromise the flange strength. I custom ordered an aluminum 33 tooth sprocket to fit the flange. I ordered the WM5/18 rim from Italy and used MikesXS SS spokes. It's nice to have a cush drive! You could go several ways with the brake rotor. The stock rotor is BIG about the OD of the front XS rotor. I ended up turning down a GS550 front rotor to match the XS650 caliper and carrier. The stock GS rotor wouldn't clear the XS caliper. I would really like to take another pound or so out of the brake. The complete GS assembly weighs 3 pounds LESS than the stock disk mag. Mostly cut turned down the spacers that came with the Suzuki to fit what I needed. After all that a $450 custom hub seems like a bargain?


When I have them apart I remove the casting flanges and clean up the fins.
I have another rear wheel conversion project on the back burner. I'll shoot some pics and talk about the issues with THAT one.