wideband sensors

[zrx1100]

Which wideband sensors are you using? where do you install the bungs?

 

[toglhot]

What are wideband sensors?

 

[modieselguy]

What are wideband sensors?

Wideband oxygen sensors provide a stable fuel mixture reading for someone to use for tuning purposes. They report the exact air to fuel ratio left after combustion.

 

[wannabridin]

https://www.14point7.com/products/sigma-lambda-controller-free-2

This one comes highly recommended from a lot of folks. I have one and it works a treat. Only downside is that it can't do logging out of the box.

Innovate makes a pretty popular unit as well. They have a "pocket logger" https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/pl-1-pocket-logger-kit.html option to use with their standard kit.

For the bikes, I use a clamp on mount for the sensor in one of the tailpipes (pics attached from my goldwing). I clamp the gauge to the bars, then setup my phone to video the wideband & tachometer (i have a small digital tach to make this easier to read). Then i will run a microphone up under the helmet so i can record my observations. The trick is to find a long road with little traffic (ideally with a slight incline) and leave it in like 3rd or 4th gear and do a pull. That way you can log the whole RPM range under a stead loading condition.

Then when you're done, go analyze the footage and make notes. If you see the RPM range where it's having issues, you can typically make changes to just those circuits. Couple this with some plug chops during the ride (if possible) and you should be able to get it dialed in pretty well without having to pony up for a dyno session.

 

[RC4MAN]

That would intimate these bikes are fuel injected, which they aren't, so O2 bungs would serve no purpose

 

[zrx1100]

https://www.14point7.com/products/sigma-lambda-controller-free-2

This one comes highly recommended from a lot of folks. I have one and it works a treat. Only downside is that it can't do logging out of the box.

Innovate makes a pretty popular unit as well. They have a "pocket logger" https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/pl-1-pocket-logger-kit.html option to use with their standard kit.

For the bikes, I use a clamp on mount for the sensor in one of the tailpipes (pics attached from my goldwing). I clamp the gauge to the bars, then setup my phone to video the wideband & tachometer (i have a small digital tach to make this easier to read). Then i will run a microphone up under the helmet so i can record my observations. The trick is to find a long road with little traffic (ideally with a slight incline) and leave it in like 3rd or 4th gear and do a pull. That way you can log the whole RPM range under a stead loading condition.

Then when you're done, go analyze the footage and make notes. If you see the RPM range where it's having issues, you can typically make changes to just those circuits. Couple this with some plug chops during the ride (if possible) and you should be able to get it dialed in pretty well without having to pony up for a dyno session.

Thanks for the post. I ordered an innovate unit and was also thinking about mounting the guage next to the tachometer and recording on video the two readings side by side. I am thinking about mounting bungs on the headers. While that may impact aesthetics, it is a sacrifice I am willing to make. What is your feedback on the cone engineering units you have in the picture? how loud are they at idle and moderate speed?

 

[AUTOMAN]

That would intimate these bikes are fuel injected, which they aren't, so O2 bungs would serve no purpose

Really?
Why?

 

[AUTOMAN]

Wide range(band) need 700°F to operate properly.
Internal heater may get cooled off at the tailpipe.

Always turn them on before starting to pre-heat. Otherwise thermal shock will kill em. Especially cold start moisture(water drops)

cliff

 

[zrx1100]

Wide range(band) need 700°F to operate properly.
Internal heater may get cooled off at the tailpipe.

Always turn them on before starting to pre-heat. Otherwise thermal shock will kill em. Especially cold start moisture(water drops)

cliff

Was thinking about mounting right before the headers first bend away from the head

 

[gggGary]

Messed around with an innovate, there's a thread in here somewhere's put the bungs about 18" from the engine.
Didn't get much out of it. My suspicion is that a single "low" RPM cylinder is going to have such a variation in exhaust mix in the pipe as to make the sensor widely erratic. That was my experience anyways.
Could have been an error on my part.
PS you really need a logger cuz trying to read gauge with the throttle whacked open on a motorbike on public roads may not be good for a long (rider's) life.

 

[zrx1100]

Messed around with an innovate, there's a thread in here somewhere's put the bungs about 18" from the engine.
Didn't get much out of it. My suspicion is that a single "low" RPM cylinder is going to have such a variation in exhaust mix in the pipe as to make the sensor widely erratic. That was my experience anyways.
Could have been an error on my part.
PS you really need a logger cuz trying to read gauge with the throttle whacked open on a motorbike on public roads may not be good for a long (rider's) life.
View attachment 324039

thanks for your post Gary. I have exact same headers. Any reason for why 18" away? I am hoping to at first use an "analog" approach where I just aim my phone camera (the phone mounted on a holder) onto the rpm and AFR guages and record a video while riding. Will try to make a few steady runs at a set rpm.

 

[gggGary]

Any reason for why 18" away?

Seems like I researched it when I did it and that was a "Best compromise" of function, sensor install access, not obnoxious obvious, when plugged location?

 

[arcticXS]

That would intimate these bikes are fuel injected, which they aren't, so O2 bungs would serve no purpose

Well, for carb tuning they definitely will .....

 

[zrx1100]

Seems like I researched it when I did it and that was a "Best compromise" of function, sensor install access, not obnoxious obvious, when plugged location?

read that the closer to the head the better. Here is also an exhaust from S&S for a royal enfield. Most important though is to not be close to any leaky joints between the headers, collectors and mufflers

 

[Jim]

I may be out in left field (what's new ), but we're measuring the amount of O2 left in the exhaust, right? Since any O2 in the exhaust will continue to be consumed (burned) in the hot exhaust after it comes out of the head, it seems to me the closer to the head, the more accurate the reading of what didn't get consumed in the combustion chamber.... which is really the answer we're looking for, right?

...unless one was specifically calibrated to account for that additional loss of O2.... in which case it should have a calibration chart showing the errors in distance from the head.

Disclaimer: I don't know jack about these sensors.

 

[AUTOMAN]

6" is optimum
Jim is right with O2 mixing. 6" will negate those fears, unless at the bend in the pipe. 18" or so may be only alt.

cliff

 

[AUTOMAN]

Any free O2 out is lean. It will burn with CH8 in the chamber unless so.

 

[zrx1100]

what about the depth to which the sensor needs to extend into the header? I see that there are bungs of different heights and I would like to not disturb the flow of gas much

 

[zrx1100]

6" is optimum
Jim is right with O2 mixing. 6" will negate those fears, unless at the bend in the pipe. 18" or so may be only alt.

cliff

what is happening at the bend?

 

[AUTOMAN]

High mass flows thru long end of the bend. I.E. high velocity tends to take the easy/long way around.
Much less takes the short side radius.

Exhaust/air/O2/fuel piles up on the short side of radius.
Momentum tends to stay in motion someone said.

Reading O2 in exhaust on the single pipe/cyl is erratic enough, as someone here said.