XS motor winter rebuild!

[blackbetty]

I don't really know why I went with the 700 over the 750....I think it's because I wanted a more handbuilt motor and an engine that would scream in the midrange, not just a simple bolt on and hope for the best. Plus, with my budget, going for the 750 kit would mean I'd have to run the stock cam, and from my research, the cost vs. gains without going all the way on the 750 doesn't work out. With the Hoos kit I can run 9.5-10.5 compression and still stay under $1000.

Interestingly enough, Roger tells me he's never had an instance of overheating, so he doesn't really understand why Heiden made these jugs with bigger fins, though clearly it makes sense. He also told me the only time he's handled those jugs is when he's been honing the cylinders to work with his own JE 750 pistons; apparently the pistons supplied with the 750 kit are inferior to the JE pistons Hoos sells.

Roger will also prep the piston rings as well as swap the factory valve springs with RD units on his refurbished head, so I don't have to do it. Since I needed machine work on my head, I can simply send Roger my old one and receive a fresh unit with the RD springs the Shell cam requires already installed. Gary degrees the cams before they go out, so I can install the Shell cam and know it'll be +/- 2*, and it keeps me from having to press off the cam gear and degreeing it myself.

Roger has my entire top end, I know that what I'll receive back will work, and I have the support of a dude who answers his phone every time I call. Plus I'm supporting a local company and not just giving my money to Mikes.

 

[blackbetty]

Whats the difference in the clutch packs in those years?

Alfredo, this link is badass for all the clutch info you need:

http://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/xs650-clutch-assembly/

The late model clutch packs (78 to later) have a spring loaded 6 plate pack, which makes 1st gear engagements smoother.

This will work better for me both with the more powerful engine as well as the foot clutch I have utilized.

 

[avenue]

subscribed.

Where in TX are you?

My engine is disassembled and sitting on the work bench as of last night, awaiting some machine work before reassembly. Since it's my first, I'll be tuned into your build. keep the updates coming. Thanks.
avenue, in San Antonio.

 

[Jack]

Interestingly enough, Roger tells me he's never had an instance of overheating, so he doesn't really understand why Heiden made these jugs with bigger fins, though clearly it makes sense. He also told me the only time he's handled those jugs is when he's been honing the cylinders to work with his own JE 750 pistons; apparently the pistons supplied with the 750 kit are inferior to the JE pistons Hoos sell

When you run big bore pistons ranging from 83MMs plus,the meat in the cylinder blocks becomes increasingly thin surrounding the liner and overheating can become an issue and they simply look cooler than a standard cylinder block.

 

[blackbetty]

subscribed.

Where in TX are you?

My engine is disassembled and sitting on the work bench as of last night, awaiting some machine work before reassembly. Since it's my first, I'll be tuned into your build. keep the updates coming. Thanks.
avenue, in San Antonio.

Yo brother I'm in Dallas. I go down to your neck of the woods often, my bro lives in Austin.

I got word from Roger that my machine work is getting wrapped up today; hopefully I'll be able to get my parts back next week. I'll have more updates next week, so stay tuned!

 

[alfredo]

Blackbetty, you were or were not going with the rephase?

 

[jobagadonitz]

I shipped my stuff off to Roger last week. Getting the same thing done. Looking forward to it.

 

[blackbetty]

Hey Alfredo,

I decided against the rephase just because I had a hard time justifying the cost to performance ratio. More RPM and less vibes isn't that important to me, so it just didn't make sense in my budget.

I love your build by the way. I'm changing the look of my XS to follow more of a frisco style like yours....

I'll have a whole new bike when I'm done, I'm so stoked.

 

[blackbetty]

OK, I received my parts from Roger, everything looks great.

I need to make an order from Mikes for incidentals (cam chain, gaskets, guides, etc) before I can start reassembly, so I took the time to install my '81 clutch boss and get the engine ready for rebuild. I'll be fitting the '81 clutch with Barnett springs and discs.

Here's a pic of the goods:

And the '81 6 pack clutch upgrade:

Now that everything is here and ready to go in, I had a few questions.

I have an Athena rebuild kit w one of the Victor Reinz 1.50 head gaskets and the standard Athena base gasket. Will these gaskets be sufficient for this build, or have you all had any better luck with copper head gasket etc? I will be using the base gasket.

Also, with my Shell cam, are there any pointers I need to be aware of when installing? Roger told me that Gary degrees the cams in a jig before they go out to +/- 2*, so I'd assume it's a simple install just like any other XS cam?

I anyone can think of anything else I'm missing, please let me know!

 

[leggers]

Nice!

following this!

 

[scabber]

Looks great while you are waiting for parts from mikes clean the rest of the rubber off those cylinder studs. I bought my Shell #1 cam from Gary and since I have all the equipment to degree the cam I checked it, spot on. Doesn't hurt to check but I think you can install it like the stock cam and it will work well for you. Good luck on your build. Thanks for the pictures.

 

[blackbetty]

Thanks scabber, I actually got bored last night after I cleaned up the shop, so I went ahead and got those cylinder studs spotless. Thank you for your feedback on the Shell cam.

Stay tuned, I'll have some more pics hopefully by this weekend!

 

[racerdave]

What am I missing here? How do you degree a cam that is out of the motor sitting on a piece of foam?

 

[Ironsled77]

scabber said he degreed the cam on his bike not black betty....

As for the athena gaskets member grizld1 told me to stay away from them 100% I can give much info other than relaying the message! I dont know shit bout these motors!

 

[Ironsled77]

"A full Vesrah gasket set will set you back around $70 if you buy it right--don't touch that green shit from Athena with a 10 foot pole." from a PM conversation we had...

 

[Jack]

Blackpetty,,,,,you'd be wise to remove those aluminum spring retainers and install the stock steel retainers before it's to late. You won't find any Motorcycle or Auto manufacture using'em and it's for a good reason, when they wear out and THEY DO ,they tend to destroy valve stems,etc. This advice comes from years of assisting a friend who was a machinist in a machine shop.

 

[blackbetty]

Ironsled,

I actually called Roger today and he said stock head gaskets are fine...but he wasn't aware I was using that 1.50 victor reinz that came with my athena kit. I think I'm going to get the copper one Jay760 mentioned here:

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13627&highlight=700cc+head+gasket

Jack,

Interesting point; they're RD springs, so they're high quality. I'll do some research and see what the interwebs has to say about failures. I still have the stock retainers if I need to swap em out.

 

[scabber]

Blackpetty,,,,,you'd be wise to remove those aluminum spring retainers and install the stock steel retainers before it's to late. You won't find any Motorcycle or Auto manufacture using'em and it's for a good reason, when they wear out and THEY DO ,they tend to destroy valve stems,etc. This advice comes from years of assisting a friend who was a machinist in a machine shop.

Since I made my last post I called R/D spring to verify they recommend the titanum would be better for street use they said they never had problem with the aluminum ones on the 650. You can run what you think is best for you. Thanks jack

 

[blackbetty]

I ordered my gaskets today from Lani at coppergaskets.us, after my phone call with this guy I have to praise his service. He is knocking out my custom spec'd gaskets for a fair price and said if I'm not happy at all, return them for a full refund.

I wanted to keep my compression at 9.5:1 since this is a street motor, so I'm going to be running as close to stock thicknesses as possible.

Stock gaskets are .020" base gasket and .048" head gasket, uncompressed.

Lani makes his copper gaskets in thicknesses of .016 .021 .026 .032 .042 .050 .063 .092 .125. The copper gaskets only compress about a thousandth of an inch when torqued.

To keep my gaskets close to factory specs and to accommodate the 77.5mm bore, I went with a .021 base gasket, and a .042 head gasket with a 78mm bore.

 

[jobagadonitz]

Hello,

I'm doing pretty much this exact mod (bored to 700 with the Shell #1 cam) also from Hoos. I noticed that your pistons and cylinders seem to be labeled "1" and "2" like they are matched. Is this something Roger did for you? Mine are not labeled like this (got them back on Monday). Was this something extra you asked for? Just confused a bit want to be sure this is going to work.

thanks