XS1100 Special front wheel on XS650 Special

[XSFazz]

Hey guys,

I have a 1978 XS650 Special, and I am in the process of doing the dual disc conversion. I heard that the XS1100 Standard wheel would fit and had already ordered an XS1100 Special wheel. I understand the rotors won't work from what I have read since they are smaller, so I will have to transfer my stock one over, and order a left hand side one that will fit.

Am I correct in assuming this? Apparently the rotors on the special wheel are smaller? Will my XS650 special rotor bolt up to this wheel, or did I just waste $70?

Thanks in advance. The search begins for a LH side rotor now.

Edit: here's the wheel I bought:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261552925255?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Here's an XS1100 standard front rotor I was thinking of buying:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/78-YAMAHA-X...Parts_Accessories&hash=item565fe065c5&vxp=mtr

Edit #3: I think I just realized that the stock mag wheel has the capability for a left disc, so I don't need this XS1100 wheel at all. Is that true?

 

[nj1639]

Yep, don't need the xs1100 wheel for that conversion. Your existing wheel has a plastic cover on the left side that covers the rotor mounting holes for a second rotor.
The rotor that you have can and will swap over to the left side. Just get another rotor.....same diameter as what you have. Look for a left side caliper.....Mikesxs or eBay.

 

[XSFazz]

Thanks for the reply!! Ugh, don't know why I thought I needed a different wheel. :/

Oh well, can always re-sell it. Now the hunt for another rotor and caliper!

 

[BriggsStratton]

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37333

 

[XSFazz]

Thanks Briggs! Saw that earlier and sent a message but no reply yet..

 

[XSFazz]

Awesome! Scored those rotors and caliper from that seller! Now just need to order a master cylinder for dual disc

 

[azman857]

I continued using my stock M/c after my dual disc addition and I'm quite satisfied with it. '80 Special 14mm m/c

 

[XSFazz]

OK cool.

So I have the 2 rotors and left side caliper coming, dual disc banjo bolt coming, as well as the 2 bolts to mount the left side caliper. I need the bolts for the other rotor now which I can probably steal from the XS1100 wheel and I think that's it, if I don't need a dual disc master cylinder.

I forgot to order the washers for the banjo bolt so I'm trying to find those now, don't feel like paying shipping again from Mike's.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Stock rotors weigh 6 lbs 12 oz each! I don't know how much a caliper weighs, but it's a couple more pounds, at least. You're adding a lot of unsprung weight and 6 lbs 12 oz extra rotating mass. In my book, this isn't such a good thing.

FWIW, that front wheel you don't need fits XS650, XS750, XS850, XS1100, and a bunch if others. The brake rotors swap between XS650 and XS1100 only.

 

[fredintoon]

OK cool.
- - - that's it, if I don't need a dual disc master cylinder.
I forgot to order the washers for the banjo bolt so I'm trying to find those now, don't feel like paying shipping again from Mike's.

Hi Fazz,
the stock m/c's piston is simply too effin' big to run just one caliper which is why it's just perfect for working two calipers.
The nasty wooden feel you get with the single disk is replaced by a sweetly perfect feel with two.
What also works to improve the brakes is replacing the original fabric reenforced brake hoses with stainless ones, so add those to your shopping list.
And Marty's right adding a second disk adds to the unsprung weight but you can drill the disks like Swiss cheese to save a little weight and improve the brakes self-cleaning ability.
But think about it, you only need the improved handling given by less unsprung weight under extreme cornering mebbe once a year doing Deals Gap but you need better brakes every day you are in traffic with the inattentive cellphone yabbling SUV driving soccer moms.
And you can get 10mm copper brake banjo washers at any bike shop and most auto shops too.

 

[XSFazz]

Ok good to hear about the M/C.

So I am going to order the rotor bolts from Mike's.. it seems that he only sells the bolts and not the 3 metal pieces (whatever you call them.. brackets?) that go along with the bolts.

Are those metal pieces important? Or can I get away with just ordering the rotor bolts?

http://www.mikesxs.net/product/30-3064.html

 

[jetmechmarty]

Mike's XS has the lock tabs.
http://www.mikesxs.net/product/29-6530.html

Since you're buying the bolts, these should be there, too! They keep the bolts from backing out and you get a visual if one does manage to get loose. These are among those very important fasteners you don't want to fall out. I'm a fan of locks or safety wire.

 

[XSFazz]

How the heck did I miss those!?

Thanks so much Marty!

So, here's my current parts list:

x2 slotted rotors (in the mail)
x1 left caliper (in the mail)
x2 left caliper bolts (in the mail)
x6 brake disc bolts (ordering now)
x3 brake disc bolts lock tabs (ordering now)
x1 dual disc banjo bolt (in the mail)
x2 banjo bolt copper washers (ordering now)

I don't think I am missing anything right?

 

[retiredgentleman]

I agree with jetmechmarty. An extra disc and caliper on the front wheel is just extra weight to carry around. Being unsprung weight makes it even worse. A single disc brake on the front gives good braking on these bikes.

Twin discs on the front might be worthwhile if you use a sidecar or ride with a passenger on the back most of the time.

However, I think most guys that do this, are after the "look" of the twin discs, and don't care if it actually degrades handling/front wheel response.

 

[XSFazz]

I'm not one to care about looks, although I do agree the dual disc looks "sportier".

The rotors I ordered are both slotted so they are a tad lighter than the stockers. Either way, I ordered all of the parts and I am going through with it. I can always switch to an upgraded front disc and go with a single disk in the future. It's just nuts and bolts

 

[jetmechmarty]

I'm not one to care about looks, although I do agree the dual disc looks "sportier".

The rotors I ordered are both slotted so they are a tad lighter than the stockers. Either way, I ordered all of the parts and I am going through with it. I can always switch to an upgraded front disc and go with a single disk in the future. It's just nuts and bolts

The slotted rotors aren't any lighter. Not enough to make any difference.

If you have enough brake to stop the wheel, adding another brake isn't going to stop it again. Make sense? Better money would be a single 3 lbs rotor and some grippy friction material. There's room to improve the master cylinder as pointed out by Fred.

 

[XSFazz]

Well, I shouldn't have said "slotted", they are actually drilled through (in a slotted pattern) like the XS1100 special rotors so they have to be at least a little bit lighter!

At any rate, I understand all of your points, I really do, less unsprung weight, etc. I am not adding another brake to "stop it again" as you say but really to stop it quicker

I know you sacrifice a little bit of handling for it, but if it's such a bad idea, why do most of the modern bikes I see around have dual discs?

I'm honestly just asking, not looking to argue as I value your guys' opinions, I am just not seeing a big deal in adding a few extra pounds of unsprung weight to stop twice as fast. Am I wrong in assuming this? Will 2 rotors/calipers not have twice the stopping power as 1 rotor/caliper?

Again, just trying to understand why most of you are against this. I thought this was a pretty popular mod among these bikes and I think a 650 is plenty big a bike to warrant a second front brake. Doesn't the R6 have dual discs?

 

[retiredgentleman]

Well, I shouldn't have said "slotted", they are actually drilled through (in a slotted pattern) like the XS1100 special rotors so they have to be at least a little bit lighter!

At any rate, I understand all of your points, I really do, less unsprung weight, etc. I am not adding another brake to "stop it again" as you say but really to stop it quicker

I know you sacrifice a little bit of handling for it, but if it's such a bad idea, why do most of the modern bikes I see around have dual discs?

I'm honestly just asking, not looking to argue as I value your guys' opinions, I am just not seeing a big deal in adding a few extra pounds of unsprung weight to stop twice as fast. Am I wrong in assuming this? Will 2 rotors/calipers not have twice the stopping power as 1 rotor/caliper?

Again, just trying to understand why most of you are against this. I thought this was a pretty popular mod among these bikes and I think a 650 is plenty big a bike to warrant a second front brake. Doesn't the R6 have dual discs?

I don't want to discourage you from using dual discs on the front. They will give your bike that "race replica" look. So enjoy it!

Why do all the top sporty bikes have dual front discs........................mainly because the manufacturer can sell the bike for a larger profit margin. Its all about increasing the profit margin. Any manufacturer could install a single, very powerful brake, but they can't make as much money doing that.

You won't be stopping twice as fast. It will probably stop in 15 to 20 % less distance, in a panic stop from 100 km/hr or 62 mph, and that's a good thing.

Don't forget that the dual discs on the new sport bikes are very thin and weigh much less than discs from the 1970s and 80s.

 

[XSFazz]

Makes sense now that you put it that way. I guess I can always upgrade more lightweight discs in the future though! I really like the ones from Mike's, but I will need to come up with like $350 so that's on the future list

Thanks again for the input guys. You guys know way more than I do, I am here to learn. But I do want to follow through with this conversion for now and then upgrade to lighter discs down the line.

So I guess my main question is, based on the parts I listed, and not needing a master cylinder, that should be all I need right?

 

[jetmechmarty]

You won't be stopping twice as fast. It will probably stop in 15 to 20 % less distance, in a panic stop from 100 km/hr or 62 mph, and that's a good thing.

That's a big MAYBE. Look up some of the specs on Harley-Davidsons. Some have dual brakes as an option. You might find shorter stopping with a single rotor. Duals give you more stops without fading.