charging system help

ok my bike wont charge i have a new wally world battery and wen fully charged and key off its giving me 13v i turn the key on and rev and nothing its going down in voltage.I did the .015" shim on the alt side and turn the key and its got magnitism.What should i do next?its a 81 xs 650 with bare bones wiring with a 81 reg/rec and i ungrounded the brush screws as well with nylon screws

Have a look at "Curlys charging system trouble shooting guide" over at the garage
HERE

i did look at that but it dont say if ur got manitism if ur stator is good or not just says go to step 2

If you get magnetizm it means your rotor is working.
If you have the 81 stator, rotor and reg/rec then you didn't need the nylon screws. the brushes are already floating. The nylon screw mod is for the 79 and older bikes.
Do you have a multimeter? To get much farther you will need one. If you have to buy or borrow one DON'T get an autoranging meter, they don't do the low ohm reading very well. I use and like the $7.99 Harbor Freight meter, Often on sale for $2.99, $1.99 with a coupon.
It could be the regulator part of the reg/rec isn't working. Not much of any way to test the regulator. Either works or don't.
Going through Curly's guide is a good place to start.

went thru curlys guide i have magnitism,grounded the green brush wire and the volts dont jump up,checked the brown wire and its get 1 volt less than the battery any idears?

If you are getting some magnetism you should get some output.
At this point I might suspect the stator, Check the ohms on the three white wires going into the stator. It should be .9 or .46 on each set of wires. Different years had different specs. The big thing being they are all the same.
Checking the ohms on the rotor is a good idea. Even with a bit of magnetism it may still be weak, should be 5 ohms + or - 10%, so 4.5 to 5.5 is good much less = shorted between wires. Not often just a little high more often open circuit = broken wire often came unsoldered where wire hooks to rotor.
As far as the voltage drop it might be the key switch, dirty contacts can cause the drop.
You want to trace the brown wire, looking for bad spots in the wire, bad connections.
The wire could be broken inside the cover.
You might try bypassing the switch and brown wire by hooking a test wire from the battery positive straight to the brown wire brush. This will tell you if the alternator or wiring is the problem. If it starts to charge, it's wiring, no charge the alternator.
You might find a bad connection in the plug where the stator plugs in the harness.

You might try bypassing the switch and brown wire by hooking a test wire from the battery positive straight to the brown wire brush. This will tell you if the alternator or wiring is the problem. If it starts to charge, it's wiring, no charge the alternator.
You might find a bad connection in the plug where the stator plugs in the harness.

Click to expand...

XSLeo, could you explain how I could bypass the switch? Would I disconnect the brown wire from the brush and then hook the direct positive wire to the brush? Will the bike then start up?
Not trying to hijack the thread, I'm just having the same problems with my bike.

Start the bike, Hook the jumper, check voltage. Unhooking the brown wire from the brush won't really matter.
What the jumper wire does is send battery voltage straight to the brush, this bypasses the wiring from the battery to the switch, from the switch to the brush.
If your alternator is ok then this should make it charge. If not, the wires or switch are bad.
If your stator and rotor ohm out as ok. This will work. If they don't ohm out ok then it won't.
Also, when running you can jumper the green brush to ground, this will bypass the regulator. If you do this DON'T let the voltage climb over 15 volts. The battery and ignition won't like it.

XSLeo said:

Start the bike, Hook the jumper, check voltage. Unhooking the brown wire from the brush won't really matter.
What the jumper wire does is send battery voltage straight to the brush, this bypasses the wiring from the battery to the switch, from the switch to the brush.
If your alternator is ok then this should make it charge. If not, the wires or switch are bad.
If your stator and rotor ohm out as ok. This will work. If they don't ohm out ok then it won't.
Also, when running you can jumper the green brush to ground, this will bypass the regulator. If you do this DON'T let the voltage climb over 15 volts. The battery and ignition won't like it.

Click to expand...

Thank you!
I've traced the brown wire from the ignition switch all the way to the rec/reg and that is what is causing my voltage drop. As soon as I connect the rec/reg connector the voltage drops at least a volt or more. When it's unhooked the voltage remains the same.
I'm assuming the rec/reg needs to be replaced before I go any further?

You say you traced the brown wire. Did you check your key switch?
Have you tried the jumper wire? Did it effect your charging?

XSLeo said:

You say you traced the brown wire. Did you check your key switch?
Have you tried the jumper wire? Did it effect your charging?

Click to expand...

I jumped the wire to the brown brush. It seemed like the battery was charging. I ran the bike for a while, and the charge after the bike ran was slightly greater than the start. I assume it charged the battery.

I haven't tried the green brush to ground...I'm assuming it's a similar deal, run a wire from the green brush to the ground?

Also, I was going through Curlys guide again, and on Step 3, when I rev my engine I never get the voltage to jump to 14.5 volts...any thoughts?

This is where the problem comes in at step 4. If I have the reg/rec connector clipped together the voltage along the brown wire drops by at least a volt. If it's not connected then up to the connection of the rec/reg the voltage remains the same. My assumption is the connection is bad??? Or is the rec/reg bad? Also, while running the bike, the clip to the reg/rec is very warm.

Step 5...3 questions...1. When you slap the case...what are you supposed to be slapping against? 2. Where are the brass slip rings on the rotor that you are supposed to measure the ohms against? And is the motor running or not?

Sorry for all the seemingly dumb questions, but I'm not very familiar with motorcycle electronics, and I can't seem to find a site that explodes out all of the parts and labels them for my mental ability .

Thanks for all the help.

Since Leo os offline,
Slapping the case, for testing the magnetic pull? Just put the feeler a bit away from the case/alternator and turn the key on. Doesn't need to be running.
Slip rings are what the brushes ride on the rotor. Remove the brushes to test OR remove the stator to expose the rotor and test. You can't miss them then. Don't mix the stator mounting screws up, I believe one is shorter than the other. Motor doesn't need to be running.

nj1639 said:

Since Leo os offline,
Slapping the case, for testing the magnetic pull? Just put the feeler a bit away from the case/alternator and turn the key on. Doesn't need to be running.
Slip rings are what the brushes ride on the rotor. Remove the brushes to test OR remove the stator to expose the rotor and test. You can't miss them then. Don't mix the stator mounting screws up, I believe one is shorter than the other. Motor doesn't need to be running.

Click to expand...

Thanks nj1639.

Jumping from battery to brown wire bypasses the switch and wiring.
Jumping the green to ground bypasses the regulator.
When jumping the green to ground, you want to watch your battery voltage. It should climb quickly, don't let it go over 15 volts. The TCI box won't like it.
If the connector is getting warm, it's proably a dirty connection inside the plug.
When a connection gets dirty, corroded, loose the resistance through the connection rises, the higher resistance creates heat. The more the resistance, the more the heat.
This bad connection is probably were your voltage drop is from.
If you pull the plug apart and look inside all the metal parts in there should be at least clean, if not bright and shiny.
Spraying a contact cleaner in there will get most of the crud. If not you may have to remove the wire connectors from the plastic plug to do a better job of cleaning.
To remove the wires from the plastic you need a strong wire, I use a heavy paper clip with one end bent out straight.
If you look at the plastic plug, the connectors are in a slot, centered one one side of the slot is a small rectangular spot/ opening, Slide the paper clip into this spot. While pushing the paper clip in, it will release the lock on the connector. It then should slide out the back of the plug.
It may take a bit of wiggling of the paper clip and wire to get it to released.
Then using the contact cleaner and a small wire brush you can really get the metal clean.
After cleaning, on the female half of the connector you can gently squeeze it tighter. reassemble with a bit of dialectric grease to help prevent corrosion and make a better connection.
If they are too bad, Mike's sells replacement connectors and plugs. With them you cut the wire ends off replace with new and install the new connectors in the new plugs and your good to go.
The new wire end crimp on, I would crimp and solder them.
The slip rings on the rotor are the part of the rotor that the brushes touch. The easy way to test the rotor is to remove at least the inside brush. This gives you access to the slip ring. The brushes should be at least 1/4 inch long, 3/8 is better.
Taking the stator off is even better. This gives you room to see the just what your doing. It also makes it pssible to clean the slip rings. Some very fine steel wool or sand paper and your contact cleaner will get them bright and shiny.
The rotor should test out to 5 ohms = or - 10%
If it test out lower it may still charge a bit. It just draws more current. Volts divided by ohms = amps. A rotor at 5 ohms is 2.9 amps. 14.5 volts divided by 5 ohms = 2.9, 14.5 divided by 2.5 ohms = 5.8 amps.
If you do find a bad rotor, get the right puller to pull the rotor, using the wrong puller can damage the rotor. Be sure to take the nut off that holds the rotor on first or you can damage the puller.

Thank you XsLeo. I'll work on all of this and report back.

1.6 ohms...bad rotor? Would this cause all the problems?

Yes. You can find used ones on ebay, or even get one from someone on the forums.
I think I would get a rewound rotor from that Gary fellow in Alabama. I have heard he does excellent work. Will even loan you the rotor puller.
I don't have his number or address but I'm sure some one will.

Thanks for your help! I'll update after I replace it.

Gary @ "Custom Rewind" Birmingham, AL 800 798 7282

He's the best. Knows how to live as well. He has a loaner puller that he will loan to you if it is in house.

Any ideas on the cost?