21 inch vs (other) front wheel size handling issues.

Jeeter

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Does a 21 inch front wheel offer any advantages or disadvantages when it comes to assertive riding? I'm not talking about 63 degree lean angles or whatever, just a bit of spirted tear-assing around now and then. :)

My other choice would most likely be a 19 inch if not the 21.

Thank you. :thumbsup:
 
From memory the larger the front wheel the better the straight line stability especially at speed. The smaller the wheel the faster the bike will turn into a corner.
Steve
 
Thanks. There's a lot of opinions on this topic on the web ... nearly as many as "oil" or "tire" threads. Thanks for the help, I'll add what you've said to my notes.

:)
 
Dirt track (aka "flat track"), and "Speedway" bikes have used large front wheels since the 1920s (that's not a typo, the nineteen twenties).

Also, various HDs (streetbikes) have used 21's up front for decades.

I'm just kickin' something around a little. :)
 
Dirt track (aka "flat track"), and "Speedway" bikes have used large front wheels since the 1920s (that's not a typo, the nineteen twenties).
Also, various HDs (streetbikes) have used 21's up front for decades.
I'm just kickin' something around a little. :)

Hi Jeeter,
so did the 2 Vs (Vincent, Velocette) back in the day.
There may have been sensible reasons for it all those years ago.
In these days of computer aided frame & suspension design where 12" wheel super-scooters can safely do the ton,
I reckon a 21" front wheel on a road bike is just a fashion statement.
 
Hi Jeeter,
so did the 2 Vs (Vincent, Velocette) back in the day.
There may have been sensible reasons for it all those years ago.
In these days of computer aided frame & suspension design where 12" wheel super-scooters can safely do the ton,
I reckon a 21" front wheel on a road bike is just a fashion statement.

Hmmm ... so if it's a fashion statement what makes Speedway Class A bikes stick to them? I was just curious. I think maybe the reason Class A bikes use larger/more narrow front wheel/tire combos is due to the loamy/loose tracks that Speedway typically has. I mean, I can't think of any other reason to run such aggressive knobs on their tires as well. So perhaps it has to do with the loose tracks and the loamy surface that the taller/more narrow front wheel/tire can get a good bite in the cushion.

Which may explain grass track and short Speedway track bikes, but does nothing for providing a good reason why they still run that combination on the half mile and even the mile tracks on Class A bikes.

I know why MX bikes and desert bikes use 21 inch fronts, the 21x18 combo has proven all but perfect on those types of bikes. As was pointed out they roll over obstacles better (and other riders' feet in corners or their legs when we're running "backwards night" at our local MX track and the guy that fell in front of you simply will not move his legs out of the way, so you pop the clutch and ride right over them with your wonderful 21 inch front wheel! I raced MX for many years, 250cc class on a very VERY hot 175cc, I was no more than 4 foot 10 inches and beating grown men on 250cc Elsinors on a weekly basis. Man I loved crushing their egos! Haahaa! :) ).

So yea, I get the reason dirt bikes use larger fronts (the larger front also has a slower rotational speed making the front end less responsive and less "jittery" in 5th gear sections of whoops). But it has me a bit lost on why Class A bikes still use larger wheel sets even after 60+ years of using the same wheel combination. I figured since the Class A bikes are supposed to be prototypes that they were using something good that the Class C and GNC guys were unable to use due to rules (like the way the AMA outlawed rigid frames in 1968 for dirt track racing, the AMA wanted very defined lines between the Calss A bikes and the "flat track" bikes. They wanted the flat track bikes to resemble the production counterparts more clearly.)

Perhaps the larger front wheel/tire may have caused the flat track bikes to use a different racing line than the 19 inch equipped bikes. Y'know, kinda like why the AMA (and anyone sane) was spooked about how the triple/multi cylinder flat track bikes used a totally different racing line than the twin cylinder bikes. Those two different racing lines intersected (very dangerously, I may add) right at the exit of each turn, creating the potential for serious contact between bikes. The twin cylinder bikes all cut into the low bottom of each corner to hit the apex, then swung out wide to exit the corner (in an attempt to make the track into as much of a circle as possible). The multi-cylinder bikes used a very wide racing line along the outside cushion of the corners. Those two racing lines crossed paths at the exit of each corner producing the opportunity for some spectacular crashes involving colliding 100mph bikes.

(NOTE: Marco Simoncelli used that same type of very wide corner entry and wide exit which effectively block-passed the rider he was overtaking. He'd been protested many times for his "unique" racing line.)

Perhaps the larger front wheels produced the same type of issues when raced with bikes that used 19 inchers?

Just sayin'.
 
Hmmm ... so if it's a fashion statement what makes Speedway Class A bikes stick to them? - - -

Hi Jeeter,
I did say 21" fronts was a fashion statement on ROAD BIKES, eh?
Same like a back tire that's fat enough to fit on a truck.
What happens in the dirt stays in the dirt.
 
And all this applies to a street bike? It may under some very limited conditions but as fredintoon said it's mostly a fashion statement. Like a lot of customs run even taller wheels.
If you are running a 21 inch up front I can assume you don't have a stock bike, I assume a "bobber" or chopper. They are pretty much a fashion statement, so run whatever you want that you think looks good.
Leo
 
I kinda view it like auto steering setups, oversteer vs understeer, small bike wheel gives oversteer and large gives understeer, each has their advantages/disadvantages for various conditions. I prefer understeer for control and challenging surfaces, neutral and/or oversteer for convienience...
 
And all this applies to a street bike? It may under some very limited conditions but as fredintoon said it's mostly a fashion statement. Like a lot of customs run even taller wheels.
If you are running a 21 inch up front I can assume you don't have a stock bike, I assume a "bobber" or chopper. They are pretty much a fashion statement, so run whatever you want that you think looks good.
Leo
Street tracker that is a tribute to the racing that my dad and I did over the years. It contains elements of various dirt track racing bikes from the era that he raced in (the Joe Leonard era) as well as the era I raced in (the Kenny Roberts era).

Which is precisely how an XS650 in a Sonic Weld competition rigid frame ends up making some sort of sense. :D

Rear wheel will be the standard 19 inch dirt track size. A 21 inch front wheel/tire is only about 1/2 inch taller in overall OD than a 19 inch wheel/tire due to the available tire profiles. It's more of a ~nod~ to a different era in my case.

In a different time, my dad and I would have tried a taller/more narrow front wheel for TT racing. We also would have tried different fork designs as well. These things are what fuel these seemingly odd questions of mine from time to time. We would have used as much grasstrack tech as the tech inspectors at the tracks would have let us get away with.

So again, keep in mind that this is a rigid framed street tracker. It has certain limits that won't allow it to safely exploit a super wide 19 inch front tire on the street. So I think that I won't really see any seat of the pants difference between a 19 or a 21.

I suppose it actually does come down to just aesthetics in the end. :)

Thanks for helping me talk this out.
 
I kinda view it like auto steering setups, oversteer vs understeer, small bike wheel gives oversteer and large gives understeer, each has their advantages/disadvantages for various conditions. I prefer understeer for control and challenging surfaces, neutral and/or oversteer for convienience...
Mmmm ... yummy tasty scrumptious oversteer. When the stars align just right it can be the most magical feeling! :)
 

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Understeer can be less fun than oversteer. I used to use understeer in tight corners on MX tracks to scrub speed sometimes. But these days there's some talented TT racers using extreme understeer to scrub off speed, it takes practice and (as my dad used to say a lot) "balls like a bull", especially in race traffic.

Allow Johnny Lewis to demonstrate....
 

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Jeeter, those understeer pictures look downright dirty. I think i agree with the "balls like a bull". i'll throw some oversteer into a corner to have some fun, but that goes WAY beyond. I'm terrified and fascinated at the same time.
to the original question, i dont know the technical answer, but i think 21's can look cool :thumbsup:
 
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