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The Garage Motorcycle Related Discussion (Yamaha XS650, other makes and models, and anything else motorcycle related including tools and gear)

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Old 03-14-2011, 04:51 PM   #1
hecrod
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Cool ignition coil

i bought a ignition coil for my 81 xs650 yamaha it reads on the box (drag specialties) size-5 ohm/points/dual fire i want to no if i can use it with the pamco elec. ignition? also will the pamco work with the original edi ignition unit 4m4 10?
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:58 PM   #2
pamcopete
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Default Re: ignition coil

hecrod,

The PAMCO will work with a 5 Ohms coil, but I don't know what you mean by "dual fire". Sometimes that means there are actually two coils in the same housing that work with two separate sets of points. I also do not know what you mean by "original edi ignition unit 4m4 10". If that is the original stock coil in the TCI system, then the PAMCO will work with that. If you mean a CDI system, then some CDI coils are very low resistance and they will fry the PAMCO.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:17 PM   #3
hecrod
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Cool Re: ignition coil

thats the info that i got from the box that the coils came in reads as is! but you answered that question! about the 5 ohms thank you. on the (ignition unit) it is a CDI box it reads type tid12-01b 4m4 10.it sits above the battery box from my 81 xs650 chopper. does that mean that the 5ohms is ok to use with the original cdi ignition unit box and pamco elec.ignition or should i invest in a new pamco kit? i don't no what you mean by CDI coils! i'm putting on new coils. do they sell the PAMCO ignition only for the 81 xs650 yamaha ? you wrote (CDI coils are very low resistance) would the 5ohms coil be low resistance? i just want this to turn out right! thanks for the info
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:20 PM   #4
XSLeo
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Default Re: ignition coil

I'm just going to inject this. The XS650 NEVER used a CDI, it uses a TCI. big difference.
If yours has the stock 81 ignition, it's a TCI and the stock coil is a 2.5 ohm primary coil.


The only way you can find out if you can do something is to try.
75 XS650B with a few mods, Dual disc brakes up front, Disc on rear, Pamcopete Ignition with the green coil, Radio Shack rectifier and Chrysler regulator, LED tail/brake and turnsignals. 750 kit,1.5 headepipes, Emgo shorty mufflers.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:29 PM   #5
hecrod
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Default Re: ignition coil

xsleo i'm going to quote you on that (The XS650 NEVER used a CDI, it uses a TCI)!! to my left is my avatar it's the (ignition unit)CDI box it reads type tid12-01b 4m4 10 from my 81 xs650sh-h chopper i bought it on ebay its exactly like the one on my chopper. a new one goes for over $300 i check it out-google it! so my question is can i use a 5ohms coils with the PAMCO ignition and the (ignition unit)CDI box type tid12-01b 4m4 10 from my 81 xs650sh or do i have to buy a new PAMCO kit? any body please help!!!
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:16 PM   #6
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Default Re: ignition coil

Picture of said product... Because the stock ignitions on the XS650 are points or TCI.


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Old 03-19-2011, 06:47 AM   #7
pamcopete
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Default Re: ignition coil

hecrod,

Boy, a lot of confused references here.

I have the igniter box from my '81/H with your identical number tid12-01b 4m4 10 on the box. It is a TCI box from the factory.

The XS650 models from '80 to '83 have a TCI (Transistor Controlled Ignition) just as XSLeo says. (See reference from Haynes manual, below) You may have bought a box for an XS650 that was called a CDI box because a lot of people on Ebay are stupid, and the term TCI was only used with certain Yamaha models, whereas the term CDI was very common, but they are two totally different systems that use two totally different methods of operation. CDI stands for Capacitor Discharge Ignition and they work by charging up a capacitor and then suddenly discharging the capacitor through the coil. The TCI system charges up the coil, and then releases the built up magnetic field to induce a spark in the secondary of the coil.

You also ask if you can use the 5 Ohm coil with the igniter box and the PAMCO. Well, the PAMCO does not need the igniter box or pickups from the TCI system. If you are going to use the PAMCO all you need is a coil, but in your case, you will also need the mechanical advance parts.

Also, if you have a 5 Ohm coil, then that is not a TCI coil. The TCI uses a 2.5 Ohm

I looked up the part number for the TCI in the official Yamaha site and came up with this:

4M4-82305-10-00 IGNITOR UNIT ASSEMBLY

Here is a shot from page 150 of the Haynes Manual for the XS650



I checked on Ebay and there is one individual from Michigan who has 4 "CDI" boxes for the XS650 for sale with that part number. I have sent him an Ebay message suggesting that he change his listing to TCI. I did not tell him he was an idiot, however, but it's Ebay listings like that that mislead people into referring to the ignition system on the XS650 as a CDI system.


Last edited by pamcopete; 03-19-2011 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:57 PM   #8
hecrod
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Default Re: ignition coil

i want to thank you a whole lot, for sorting out the problem on the ignition coils. at least i now know i cant use the 5 ohms. ill get the 2.5 ohms or get the pamco kit for it. again i appreciate your help in this situation. and thanks xsleo for your input.
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Old 03-19-2011, 05:08 PM   #9
XSLeo
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Default Re: ignition coil

Hecrod, no problem. I see people using the wrong terminology on things all the time. Sometimes I just have to speak out.
Pete, I do the same on Ebay. The sellers often thank me for the information, once in a while you get one that will tell you just where to put that information.


The only way you can find out if you can do something is to try.
75 XS650B with a few mods, Dual disc brakes up front, Disc on rear, Pamcopete Ignition with the green coil, Radio Shack rectifier and Chrysler regulator, LED tail/brake and turnsignals. 750 kit,1.5 headepipes, Emgo shorty mufflers.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:39 PM   #10
alan
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Default Re: ignition coil

is my tci supposed to get warm if my ignition is on but bike not running
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: ignition coil

The TCI has an automatic shut off feature if the engine isn't turning so it won't self destruct. In the stock location it's so inaccessible I doubt any one has ever checked it's temperature!



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Old 04-20-2012, 07:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: ignition coil

The reason I am asking is I am new to xs650's and just finished customizing it hardtail etc. all stock ignition worked flawlessly as a mock up. Striped it down to bare frame for paint and now when I got it back together I can't get it to start. No spark. I did strip the paint on the coil bracket & engine ground. My tci is under my seat and easy accessible and I noticed that it gets hot as I was trying to diagnose the spark issue. Still no spark
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: ignition coil

Some interesting info here!
Sooooo, if I am choosing a coil for better spark using the stock TCI system, there are 3 choices from Mikes. Which would be best?
XS Performance Ignition Coil Part #17-6810
Ultimate High Output coil Part #17-6903
High Output Replacement Coil Part #17-6803
However, none are in stock so I guess it's a moot point.....
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:38 AM   #14
birdog4549
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Default Re: ignition coil

Quote:
Originally Posted by pamcopete View Post
hecrod,

The PAMCO will work with a 5 Ohms coil, but I don't know what you mean by "dual fire". Sometimes that means there are actually two coils in the same housing that work with two separate sets of points. I also do not know what you mean by "original edi ignition unit 4m4 10". If that is the original stock coil in the TCI system, then the PAMCO will work with that. If you mean a CDI system, then some CDI coils are very low resistance and they will fry the PAMCO.
I have a stock 1981 H with original TCI ingnition and I like the yellow wires and red NGK caps for the look. They seem to be associated with Pamco in some way. Can I just get the coil with wires and "drop" it in? Can you suggest a coil replacement with the yellow wires and red caps?
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:45 AM   #15
pamcopete
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Default Re: ignition coil

KeithB,

I checked MikesXS stock and all of those part numbers are in stock.

If you are going to keep the TCI until it fails, then it's 17-6803. If you are going to switch over to a PAMCO later, then it's the 17-6903. If you choose the 17-6803, then strip off the plastic on the ends of the coil core for better heat conduction to the frame per the installation instructions for that coil in www.yamahaxs650.com
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:09 AM   #16
KeithB
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Default Re: ignition coil

Thanks Pete!
Can't decide if I will go PAMCO later. If the 6803 works well, might just leave well enough alone.
However, an extra $30 or so for the option to upgrade at a later date isn't all that much more to spend.
The Mikes link for Canada shows out of stock.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:58 AM   #17
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Default Re: ignition coil

Keith,

OK. I didn't realize that you were in Canada. You might try using a Harley coil, OEM #31609-80 or aftermarket #17131.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:46 PM   #18
KeithB
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Default Re: ignition coil

The coil I have is working so there is no rush.
I can wait for the high output to become available.
Thanks Pete
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:05 PM   #19
XSLeo
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Default Re: ignition coil

Alan, if your TCI box is getting warm I think it has a short some where, either in the wiring to and from it or inside. First check that your wiring is right.
As far as getting spark you need battery power to the red/white wire at both the coil and the TCI box.
They used two types of TCI boxes. The early had just 6 wires coming out the later had 7 wires. The early had a black/white that hooked to the pick ups on the stator. The 7 wire had another black/white wire, this second b/w wire went to the side stand relay so that if the side stand was down and you put it in gear the engine will stop. If you have this extra wire and have it grouned the TCI won't fire the coil.
Again check your wiring. Also read up on TCI box repair, or ignitor box, ingintion box. There are svreal threads about this.
Leo


The only way you can find out if you can do something is to try.
75 XS650B with a few mods, Dual disc brakes up front, Disc on rear, Pamcopete Ignition with the green coil, Radio Shack rectifier and Chrysler regulator, LED tail/brake and turnsignals. 750 kit,1.5 headepipes, Emgo shorty mufflers.
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