Expanded charging system guide (In progress)

[louis]

Okay 2M, I can tell I am giving you dodgy information. I'm just testing things and hoping what I say is making sense.

Let me break it down so to be very clear. I am testing the wiring in 3 main harnesses, the first two are up near the battery, one is 3 pin and one is 6 pin. The third wiring harness is down under the LHS cover and is 5 pin.

This is what they are reading. The first number is bike off at main switch, the second number is bike on at main switch .

3 Pin Wiring Harness
Brown - 0V / 11.5
Green - 0V / 11.4
Black - 0V / 0V

6 Pin Wiring Harness
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
White - 12.8V / 12.5V
Black - 12.8V / 12.5V
Green - 12.8V / 1.1V
Sky Blue - 12.8V / 12.4V

5 Pin Wiring Harness
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
Red - 12.8V / 0.1V
Black - 0V / 12.6V

I then unplugged the rectifier and tested the 5 pin wiring harness again. The three white wires still had battery voltage.

Now, I am absolutely lost.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

...The first number is bike off at main switch, the second number is bike on at main switch .

3 Pin Wiring Harness
Brown - 0V / 11.5
Green - 0V / 11.4
Black - 0V / 0V

That's the regulator connector.
Those values look good

6 Pin Wiring Harness
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
White - 12.8V / 12.5V
Black - 12.8V / 12.5V
Green - 12.8V / 1.1V
Sky Blue - 12.8V / 12.4V

That's the alternator connector.
3 white from the stator.
Green & Black for the rotor brushes.
Sky Blue for the neutral switch.

5 Pin Wiring Harness
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
White - 12.8V / 12.6V
Red - 12.8V / 0.1V
Black - 0V / 12.6V

That's the rectifier connector.
3 white from the stator.
Red goes to the battery.
Black goes to ground.

The voltages for Red and Black become reversed when the bike is switched "on".

I then unplugged the rectifier and tested the 5 pin wiring harness again. The three white wires still had battery voltage.

Now, I am absolutely lost.

Well, hang in there.

The reversed voltages of the red and black wires make me wonder if the battery is hooked up backwards. If so, the rectifier is likely shot. And, that could cause the white wires to show voltage.

For each connector, there's 3 test conditions.
1 - Connector halves plugged-in, probing into the connections from the backsides.
2 - Connector halves unplugged, probing into the device pins.
3 - Connector halves unplugged, probing into the harness pins.

And, condition #3 can be influenced by the plugged/unplugged status of other connectors.

Condition #2 is the first step in diagnostics, and it's not to measure voltages, but to evaluate the component. The tests are for continuity and resistances. This is where you do the stator, brush/rotor, and rectifier testing.

Condition #1 is best reserved for later, when a better understanding of the charging system is acquired. And, it'll have more meaning on a running engine. I'm assuming that your reported values above were done under this condition.

So,
Check your battery installation polarity.
Do the Stator continuity/resistance tests.
Do the Rectifier forward/reverse continuity/resistance tests.
Do these in condition 2, all connectors unplugged, probing into the device-side of the connector.

 

[louis]

Awesome reply 2M, makes a lot of sense.

When I was testing the stator wires in the harnesses yesterday I was testing to ground, which I guess is why I was getting voltage readings. I reread Curly's guide on testing the stator wires and did exactly as it says. I tested for continuity between each of the 3 white wires in both the rectifier and the alternator harness, the multimeter beeped between each white wire in both harnesses suggesting there was continuity. I then moved on to testing the AC voltage in the rectifier harness at idle. There was 11.5-12V at idle (AC setting on multimeter) between any combination of white wires. This number climbed to nearly 20V when I revved the bike. Does this mean my stator is okay?

That's the regulator connector.

The reversed voltages of the red and black wires make me wonder if the battery is hooked up backwards. If so, the rectifier is likely shot. And, that could cause the white wires to show voltage.

Condition #1 is best reserved for later, when a better understanding of the charging system is acquired. And, it'll have more meaning on a running engine. I'm assuming that your reported values above were done under this condition.

So,
Check your battery installation polarity.
Do the Stator continuity/resistance tests.
Do the Rectifier forward/reverse continuity/resistance tests.
Do these in condition 2, all connectors unplugged, probing into the device-side of the connector.

Battery is hooked up like it was when I bought it and have ridden 1000 kms or so on this bike. Positive to earth under the left hand side airbox cover and positive to wire that sends current throughout bike. Negative side to earth only on the engine block. hope that makes sense!

That's the regulator connector.
Do the Rectifier forward/reverse continuity/resistance tests.

I have no idea what this is or how to do it, is it in Curly's guide?

 

[louis]

One final test, I just checked the resistance between each stator wire with the connector unplugged as per the guide and the resistance was about 0.7/0.8 ohms and then when i touched the tips of the multimeter together I get a reading of 0.2 ohms.

 

[louis]

Finally got the confidence up to jump the regulator green wire to battery positive. The bike switched on, like it bypassed the main switch?

Anyway, when I bypassed the regulator and jumped it to battery positive the voltage did not climb when I revved the bike. Does this mean the issue is definitely not my regulator?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... Does this mean my stator is okay?

Yep, sounds okay to me.

... Battery is hooked up like it was when I bought it and have ridden 1000 kms or so on this bike...
...Positive to earth under the left hand side airbox cover...
...positive to wire that sends current throughout bike...
...Negative side to earth only on the engine block.

That " Positive to earth under the left hand side airbox cover" is a problem.
Only Negative (-) should be going to earthed grounds.

... I have no idea what this is or how to do it, is it in Curly's guide?

Okay, that's my fault. In that post, I inadvertently said regulator instead of rectifier (a cut-and-paste snafu). I fixed that post to say rectifier instead. When you test the rectifier, you'll be testing 6 diodes, each in a forward direction, and each in a reverse direction. From your other descriptions, I suspect it's bad, so watch the test results closely and don't let them confuse you...

 

[louis]

Just retested, I was wrong, the red wire from the rectifier to the battery has no voltage regardless if bike is on or off. I Removed some heat-shrink the PO had on it and he has just braided this wire near the battery to an in line fuse holder (only fuse on bike). The wire has charge where it grounds to the battery and loses it after this braid. So basically my rectifier isn't getting any power and isn't communicating with my battery, hence my bike isn't charging???

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Finally got the confidence up to jump the regulator green wire to battery positive. The bike switched on, like it bypassed the main switch?

Yeah, that's correct. Inside the regulator, the green and brown are in contact, by way of the regulator's contact points. So, jumpering the green simply powers the brown, as though you switched the bike 'on'.

Normally, the green wire jumper test is done with the engine running. And it's done if/when you fail the 'slap' test. Since your rotor, its brushes, and the regulator previously passed the 'slap' test, you don't need to do the green wire jumper test.

Anyway, when I bypassed the regulator and jumped it to battery positive the voltage did not climb when I revved the bike. Does this mean the issue is definitely not my regulator?

Not quite yet. But, I'm leaning heavily towards the rectifier, plus whatever is going on with that earthed positive...

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Just retested, I was wrong, the red wire from the rectifier to the battery has no voltage regardless if bike is on or off. I Removed some heat-shrink the PO had on it and he has just braided this wire near the battery to an in line fuse holder (only fuse on bike). The wire has charge where it grounds to the battery and loses it after this braid. So basically my rectifier isn't getting any power and isn't communicating with my battery, hence my bike isn't charging???

Well, THAT's meaningful. The rectifier receives AC from the stator and converts it to DC power, which is sent thru that red wire TO the bike's main power (red) and TO the battery.

A bad connection there would DEFINITELY cause your charging problems.

Fingers crossed that you found it, and it's the ONLY problem...

 

[louis]

But, I'm leaning heavily towards the rectifier, plus whatever is going on with that earthed positive...

Yep, we are definitely narrowing it down! I'll rewire the red cable of the rectifier and see how I go.

I might be using incorrect language, both pos and neg terminals on my battery have battery straps. The neg battery strap earths to the engine block. The positive battery strap goes down to some small little plastic looking device on the LHS of the bike and is mounted behind a bolt and some washers. I figured this was an earth, but it might be something else.

I will post a photo of where the positive terminal battery strap goes to.

 

[louis]

There it is

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

That's your starter solenoid. Thick red wire going there from battery positive (+) is okey-dokey.

So far, so good...

 

[louis]

Really appreciate the help 2M, I will rewire rectifier to battery to ensure I'm getting battery voltage and report back.

I think there's still a very good chance this rectifier is toast.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Going back to your first post:

...If it was a charging system issue, would I be able to ride for 4 days before it dies?

Yes, an intermittant connection between the rectifier output (red wire), and the battery, could be giving you occasional charging. And that funky connection you found could be it.

But, still test the rectifier, to ensure it's still okay after this combat session...

 

[gggGary]

Brush checking is fairly easy, remove the small two screw cover. look carefully at the oddball wire wraps around the phenolic square rectangle, assembly method as you remove them. Note the top bush is held by several screws and has a longer tinned "bracket"

 

[louis]

Hey Gary, finally my weekend here so I had a bit of time.

Took off the alternator cover and removed the brushes, the top (grounded) brush measured 13mm and the bottom brush measured 7mm!

I figured because I passed the slap test that the brushes were okay? Guess not. Could my charging system issues be as simple as that?

I've ordered new brushes from Mikes but being in Australia they will take a week or so, minimum.

 

[gggGary]

maybe.... FWIW while you are waiting; pull the big LH cover, clean up the mess under there. Check the sprocket, washer properly placed, nut is TIGHT, check the clutch shaft seal. clean and lube the clutch pull mechanism. Pull the stator off, use fine paper 400 or 600 and solvent and get the slip rings bright, measure across the rings you should be seeing 5 to 5.6 ohms. look for any damage to the stator, brush wiring harness in the sprocket area.

 

[louis]

I would need a rotor puller for that? Which I don't have. I ordered one when I got my brushes.

 

[gggGary]

Nope, rotor is under the stator, only time you need to pull the rotor is to replace it.

 

[louis]

Quick update, still waiting on some parts. Bike is now misfiring badly when I ride it. I pulled the carbs and cleaned the jets with compressed air and it's still misfiring.

I'm assuming that the bike is now finally running like youd expect with a failing charging system. I read a quote from retired gentleman in another thread, "forget the carbs and fuel system until you sort out your charging". Seems like solid advice.