My rebuild journey. (old title: Future owner - Help me identify this 650.)

Yep, they look pretty gummed up, but no where near beyond hope. I just cleaned up a set recently that were at least that bad, maybe worse, and they came out great. A word of caution - remove all the rubber bits you can before getting the carb cleaner anywhere near them. That stuff ruins rubber. Remove the slide/diaphragm assemblies especially. The rubber diaphragms will shrivel up like used condoms if you get carb cleaner on them, lol. Also, don't dunk and soak the carb bodies. There are rubber seals on both ends of the butterfly shafts and the cleaner would get in there and ruin them. I spray some carb cleaner in a little tub (cap from liquid laundry detergent bottle) and just wipe the carbs out with it using Q-tips, rags, and pipe cleaners dipped in it. It's the best way. You don't run near the risk of damaging any remaining rubber bits this way, like immersing the carb body would. You could dunk and soak the float bowls if you remove the drain screw first. It has an o-ring on it.

For the most part, your carbs look unmolested and not fooled with much. I do see someone replaced the float bowl screws with Allens, and that's fine. Most of us do that (along with the top screws too). You haven't given a real good pic from the top but from this one already in your album, it looks like the factory brass plugs covering the mix screws haven't been removed .....

lxrgV6W.jpg


Here's a better shot of what one looks like .....

6w594s8.jpg


To do a proper cleaning of the idle circuit, you have to remove that plug so you can remove the mix screw under it. I see in your newly added pics that the butterflies look open quite a bit. That means the idle speed was turned way up. I'm guessing that was necessary because the bike wouldn't idle and kept stalling. So, there's a good chance your whole carb issues are nothing more than a plugged up idle circuit. There is also a small o-ring on the mix screw that needs to be good or it won't meter fuel correctly. Chances are that's gone bad as well .....

50uwrYZ.jpg
 
PXL_20201211_004718989.jpg
Yep, they look pretty gummed up, but no where near beyond hope. I just cleaned up a set recently that were at least that bad, maybe worse, and they came out great. A word of caution - remove all the rubber bits you can before getting the carb cleaner anywhere near them. That stuff ruins rubber. Remove the slide/diaphragm assemblies especially. The rubber diaphragms will shrivel up like used condoms if you get carb cleaner on them, lol. Also, don't dunk and soak the carb bodies. There are rubber seals on both ends of the butterfly shafts and the cleaner would get in there and ruin them. I spray some carb cleaner in a little tub (cap from liquid laundry detergent bottle) and just wipe the carbs out with it using Q-tips, rags, and pipe cleaners dipped in it. It's the best way. You don't run near the risk of damaging any remaining rubber bits this way, like immersing the carb body would. You could dunk and soak the float bowls if you remove the drain screw first. It has an o-ring on it.

For the most part, your carbs look unmolested and not fooled with much. I do see someone replaced the float bowl screws with Allens, and that's fine. Most of us do that (along with the top screws too). You haven't given a real good pic from the top but from this one already in your album, it looks like the factory brass plugs covering the mix screws haven't been removed .....

lxrgV6W.jpg


Here's a better shot of what one looks like .....

6w594s8.jpg


To do a proper cleaning of the idle circuit, you have to remove that plug so you can remove the mix screw under it. I see in your newly added pics that the butterflies look open quite a bit. That means the idle speed was turned way up. I'm guessing that was necessary because the bike wouldn't idle and kept stalling. So, there's a good chance your whole carb issues are nothing more than a plugged up idle circuit. There is also a small o-ring on the mix screw that needs to be good or it won't meter fuel correctly. Chances are that's gone bad as well .....

50uwrYZ.jpg
PXL_20201211_004722209.jpg
 
Ok I got it apart. Its pretty sticky. The left carb float is completely seized. I need to buy some carb cleaner tomorrow and get to work. As always, there are more photos in my album https://photos.app.goo.gl/apRrYDuJB16yrt3SA .

Here is the right carb. The float moves freely.
PXL_20201211_011338419.jpg


The more 'yellow; one is the left car. The float is completely seized

PXL_20201211_011503701.jpg



The diaphragms were harder to remove then I was anticipating. I thought maybe there were screws holding them in. What i neded up doing was sticking a screwdriver through he bore and twiddling up
PXL_20201211_030434344.jpg




Looking down the left carb with diaphram removed.
PXL_20201211_030452423.jpg



Down the right carb

PXL_20201211_030456112.jpg



Left float
PXL_20201211_030638781.jpg




Right Float
PXL_20201211_030641962.jpg
 
Yep, they look pretty gummed up, but no where near beyond hope. I just cleaned up a set recently that were at least that bad, maybe worse, and they came out great. A word of caution - remove all the rubber bits you can before getting the carb cleaner anywhere near them. That stuff ruins rubber. Remove the slide/diaphragm assemblies especially. The rubber diaphragms will shrivel up like used condoms if you get carb cleaner on them, lol. Also, don't dunk and soak the carb bodies. There are rubber seals on both ends of the butterfly shafts and the cleaner would get in there and ruin them. I spray some carb cleaner in a little tub (cap from liquid laundry detergent bottle) and just wipe the carbs out with it using Q-tips, rags, and pipe cleaners dipped in it. It's the best way. You don't run near the risk of damaging any remaining rubber bits this way, like immersing the carb body would. You could dunk and soak the float bowls if you remove the drain screw first. It has an o-ring on it.

For the most part, your carbs look unmolested and not fooled with much. I do see someone replaced the float bowl screws with Allens, and that's fine. Most of us do that (along with the top screws too). You haven't given a real good pic from the top but from this one already in your album, it looks like the factory brass plugs covering the mix screws haven't been removed .....

lxrgV6W.jpg


Here's a better shot of what one looks like .....

6w594s8.jpg


To do a proper cleaning of the idle circuit, you have to remove that plug so you can remove the mix screw under it. I see in your newly added pics that the butterflies look open quite a bit. That means the idle speed was turned way up. I'm guessing that was necessary because the bike wouldn't idle and kept stalling. So, there's a good chance your whole carb issues are nothing more than a plugged up idle circuit. There is also a small o-ring on the mix screw that needs to be good or it won't meter fuel correctly. Chances are that's gone bad as well .....

50uwrYZ.jpg


So I was looking at this. How do I remove the brass plug?
 
You have to tap the pin out of the two towers. Be sure and brace them before you start tapping on the pin... the towers will break easier than you think. The wire you referred to is attached to the float valve and will come out with the float.
 
You have to carefully drill into the plug using about a 1/8" drill bit, then thread a sheet metal screw into the hole, grab it with vice grips and yank it out. The trick is not to drill all the way through the plug because the mix screw is right below it and will have it's head (screwdriver slot) easily damaged if you do. To accomplish this, watch that vent hole through the center of the plug. Drill a little bit and check the vent hole size, drill a little more and check the size, etc. As soon as you see the vent hole starting to get bigger, stop drilling because you're almost through the plug. Also, grind the sharp point off the sheet metal screw so it doesn't poke through the plug and damage the top of the mix screw .....

1He45qM.jpg


WwXCtog.jpg


imPf1SZ.jpg


To remove the floats, you remove the pivot pin they rotate on. In these BS34's the pin is like a nail with a head on one side. Obviously, you have to pull the pin out from that side. That whole area is pretty gummed up so you're going to need to clean it off as best you can before attempting to remove the float pin. The pin is a wedge fit in there so will need to be gently tapped out with a pin punch. All that gum and varnish is probably sticking it in there more too. So, clean the area up, add some penetrating oil and maybe some heat to soften the varnish, then try to gently tap the pin out.

It seems you've got a little bit of parts mismatching going on here. Those are 1980 brass floats you've got in there. No matter really, they interchange with the later plastic ones. But that raises the question - were they swapped into these 1981 carbs or were '81 float bowls swapped on (which would make the carbs an '80 set)?
 
You have to carefully drill into the plug using about a 1/8" drill bit, then thread a sheet metal screw into the hole, grab it with vice grips and yank it out. The trick is not to drill all the way through the plug because the mix screw is right below it and will have it's head (screwdriver slot) easily damaged if you do. To accomplish this, watch that vent hole through the center of the plug. Drill a little bit and check the vent hole size, drill a little more and check the size, etc. As soon as you see the vent hole starting to get bigger, stop drilling because you're almost through the plug. Also, grind the sharp point off the sheet metal screw so it doesn't poke through the plug and damage the top of the mix screw .....

1He45qM.jpg


WwXCtog.jpg


imPf1SZ.jpg


To remove the floats, you remove the pivot pin they rotate on. In these BS34's the pin is like a nail with a head on one side. Obviously, you have to pull the pin out from that side. That whole area is pretty gummed up so you're going to need to clean it off as best you can before attempting to remove the float pin. The pin is a wedge fit in there so will need to be gently tapped out with a pin punch. All that gum and varnish is probably sticking it in there more too. So, clean the area up, add some penetrating oil and maybe some heat to soften the varnish, then try to gently tap the pin out.

It seems you've got a little bit of parts mismatching going on here. Those are 1980 brass floats you've got in there. No matter really, they interchange with the later plastic ones. But that raises the question - were they swapped into these 1981 carbs or were '81 float bowls swapped on (which would make the carbs an '80 set)?
If i drill those caps out, will I need to replace them? If so - where do i get them.
 
..... and you're not near done yet with removing parts, lol. I see you removed the main jets. Under them is a washer that will just pop out, and under that is the needle jet .....

eTEMwPf.jpg


To remove the needle jet, you tap it up and into the main bore of the carb. Here's what they look like once out. You'll probably find yours all coated with gunk and with all those tiny air bleed holes down the sides plugged .....

zIpUYWI.jpg


But there's more ..... under that rubber plug next to the main jet resides the smaller pilot jet for your idle circuit. You'll need to remove that as well .....

1miKX9O.jpg


And here's a shot of the "nail head" end of the float pivot pin. When installed, you needn't drive it all the way in, that will only make it harder to remove in the future. You only need to drive it in far enough so the other end is flush with the outside of it's post (see pic above) .....

mKnEQeG.jpg
 
No, you don't have to replace the plugs, just leave the "tower" open. You want it like this so you can easily access the mix screw for adjustments.
 
No, you don't have to replace the plugs, just leave the "tower" open. You want it like this so you can easily access the mix screw for adjustments.


The next thing on my mind is - and im too lazy to look back in this thread - but i recall someone saying that its common for people to change the exhaust but not change the jetting. What do I need to watch out for that? Is there parts I need to buy ahead of time?
 
Well, the bike should be re-jetted when things like the exhaust and air filters are changed. This is particularly true for the BS34 equipped models like yours because they came from the factory set up quite lean (E.P.A. strangled). Check the sizes of the jets that are in there now and compare them to the stock sizes in that chart I put in post #89. The usual routine is to increase the pilot jet one size and the mains 2 or 3. Then there's also an air jet you can play with to fine tune the idle circuit, but that can come later.
 
Well, the bike should be re-jetted when things like the exhaust and air filters are changed. This is particularly true for the BS34 equipped models like yours because they came from the factory set up quite lean (E.P.A. strangled). Check the sizes of the jets that are in there now and compare them to the stock sizes in that chart I put in post #89. The usual routine is to increase the pilot jet one size and the mains 2 or 3. Then there's also an air jet you can play with to fine tune the idle circuit, but that can come later.

I got the floats off but I think I damaged the needle of the seized one. So it looks like I will be buying a new one. I might as well make an order for some other thing I might need.

Also, for the needle jet. You said tap it out? It doesn't screw? And I would find something nice and flush to tap it UP (opposite way of the main jet). It doesnt seem to want to move.
 
Actually, I can't recommend any of that stuff, lol. Those floats are aftermarket and not made very well, specifically the pivot pin hole. If you had an original to examine, you would see the pivot has a tube liner in it. this makes for a nice, precise fit on the pin. The aftermarket floats don't have that pivot tube insert and are a loose, sloppy fit on the pin. This makes their operation erratic. They jiggle all around and sometimes hang up or stick. For carb top screws, I recommend stainless button head (or just normal) Allens .....

WnsPM6d.jpg


4RX0uaP.jpg


For rebuild kits, I like these. You get more things so they are a better deal. They don't include the rubber plugs for over the pilot jets but those are readily available off eBay .....

https://www.cruzinimage.net/2017/07/26/80-81-yamaha-xs650-carb-repair-kits/

If you need new mix screws, it's best to get genuine ones from Yamaha. They're not too expensive .....

https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/p/yamaha/12r-14105-00-00/-pilot-screw-set

https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/12R-14105-00-00
 
Yes, that looks like a better wheel deal. If he can pick it up at $30 to $50, I'd go for it. See if he's got the axle too.
 
Back
Top