1981 wheel relacing

happydaze

John
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Hello,

I brought my XS650H in for an inspection yesterday. The guy said that I can get another summer out of my spokes but I should get my wheels relaced in the next off-season. He said he sends them out. I was wondering if anyone can recommend a shop or service that does this, or if you can share any thoughts on how much it should cost to get this done. I'm in Brooklyn NY.

Thanks
 
Mike's has spoke kits, relace them yourself. The Clymer book page 139 is the procedure for the 36 spoke wheels. The 64 spoke wheel is done about the same way.
take lots of good pics of your wheel before you remove the old spokes. This will help you get the right spoke pattern when reassembling.
While apart is a good time to clean up, polish, paint, powder coat the hub and rim.
Leo
 
Thanks Leo. I just looked up the parts on MikeXS. I'll get a few quotes from local shops and weigh the cost of doing it myself vs. having it done. I live in NYC and I don't really have a good place to work on the bike. I also don't have a dial gauge, truing stand, or any balancing tools.
 
Once you get it assembled mount it back in the forks. Use a bent wire off one fork to get it close, you can with a bit of practice get it very close.
As far as balancing, www.innovativebalancing.com sells Dyna Beads, I think it's the best balancing system out there. Worked wonders on my bikes. Not hard to install and can't fall off or rust your rim.
Leo
 
BTW, I can see possibly truing the front wheel in the forks but it seems like the back would be a different story. First you would have to know that the hub is straight in relation to the frame.
 
When using a tube, install through the valve stem.
If you are not using a tube you can install them through the valve stem or break down one side of the tire and pour them in.
When you get the kit it comes with a short piece of clear tubing, I recommend getting a foot or two of the same size clear tubing to use instead. It will make installing the beads easier.
Leo
 
I have a couple more questions about relacing.

I see that there are different spokes made of stainless steel, or cadmium plated. Any thoughts on which one is best and why? The steel ones cost twice as much.

Is it necessary to cut all of the spokes or can they be changed individually? If my rims clean up well, I might just replace the spokes and not the rims. It seems like it would be easier to do them one at a time since you can't botch the pattern and you are starting with a wheel that is already true or hopefully close to it.

Thanks
 
I have a couple more questions about relacing.
I see that there are different spokes made of stainless steel, or cadmium plated. Any thoughts on which one is best and why? The steel ones cost twice as much.
Is it necessary to cut all of the spokes or can they be changed individually? If my rims clean up well, I might just replace the spokes and not the rims. It seems like it would be easier to do them one at a time since you can't botch the pattern and you are starting with a wheel that is already true or hopefully close to it.
Thanks

Hi happydaze,
first, I suspect your inspector's veracity. "OK for another year"?
WTF? Spokes are either OK (tight, all "ping" nice, not bent or broken, rim runs true) or they are not (Loose, broken, bent, missing, rim all wobbly) and need replacing right now.
That said:-
Plated carbon steel spokes can rust while the more expensive stainless steel spokes won't.
Whichever spokes you buy be sure that they have been passivated as a final step of manufacture.
Some who make highly polished spokes meant for show bikes omit this step.
Use non-passivated spokes on a wheel that sees the road and the spoke heads have been known to pop off.
Cut the old spokes to remove them? OK I suppose if the nipples are seized or don't turn easily, use a dremel rather than an angle grinder or a gas axe?
Of course use the existing rims unless they are damaged or if you are using the respoke job to swap into a different rim size or style.
One at a time? Alas, no. Taking them all out is easier. They have to be installed in the correct order. One bank at a time, ingoers first, outgoers last.
I once replaced a single ingoing spoke in a built wheel after it broke.
It had to be bent into a U-shape to get in into place past all the other spokes then hand-straightened to finally poke it into the rim and thread the nipple on.
You could hardly see the wiggle in the spoke after it was tensioned but I don't recommend building a wheel that way.
 
BTW, I can see possibly truing the front wheel in the forks but it seems like the back would be a different story. First you would have to know that the hub is straight in relation to the frame.

center the hub in the rim, for both front and rear. no offsets.
 
Thanks Fred,

This is for my '81 Special II.

I had to look up passivated. It means coated to reduce the chemical reactivity of the surface (prevents corrosion due to weather and other external forces). I also read that if they have too much coating on them, the spokes and nipples won't screw together smoothly. The ones on MikesXS do not say whether or not they are passivated. Apparently another option is anodized. Apparently spokes can also be single butted, double butted, or non-butted (straight gauge).

I took a look at my spokes yesterday. They all look black. Maybe they are anodized, or maybe they are just really dirty. I know that many details that are shiny on the Specials are black on the Special IIs. They are probably original to the bike, whatever they are. The front ones do have some surface pitting. The guy's reason for me replacing them was that he said they are rusted. He said that he cuts the spokes and sends the hubs out, so I assume that means that the rims would be arbitrarily replaced as well. My rims do have some surface rust on them but I think it can be cleaned off. I'm going to try to clean up both wheels today and see what the spokes & rims look like when they are clean.

I also noticed that all of the wheels on MikesXS are aluminum. I had assumed that mine are stainless steel. I also need to see if mine are shouldered or not.

It looks like you can buy a pretty nice truing stand for around $125USD. The one I was looking at has a bubble balancer as well, but I'm sure dynamic (high speed) balancing would be better. I have to weigh the differences between buying a stand and doing it myself or paying somebody to do it.

Luckily I have the whole summer to think about this... :)

John
 
Dyna Beads, Ducking and running .... :laugh:
 

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In a nut shell, passivating Is {only done on cheaper stainless steel}. It removes iron particles or iron contamination from surface of the part. Yes cheaper stainless steel will have iron, Thats why cheap stainless steel will rust if not passivated. You do not passivate steel, You would eat it right up. Passivating is done with strong nitric acid that will eat up steel because it's iron. High grade stainless does not require passivating as it is much purer and doesn't contain iron Thats why it cost more. Most shinny stainless is of higher quality That is what most bike builders use, hence it does not contain iron, so it will not be passivated, I would not buy spokes that were passivated because its cheaper stainless. Steel spokes will be plated with zinc or cadmium, Cadmium plated spokes were common at one time. It will be hard to find them now as Cadmium is very toxic once it's in your system-body you can not get rid of it, it's a cumulative toxic heavy metal. And is used very little any more, Due to EPA regulations on its use. If you do find them they would probably be Chinese as they don't give a s**t about the environment or there bodys or your spokes which will be cheap s**t anyway. Spoke's from Mike's or Bucanan's are good stuff don't sweat over it. I have been in the aerospace plating industries for 35 years and most plane manufacturers NO longer use cadmium. The last user was Nasa on the shuttle craft, And it was very limited to special components. Jay
 
Thanks. FWIW MikesXS still lists cadmium plated spokes for about half the price of stainless steel.

Then there is the argument about straight gauge or butted. I saw someone post on another board that he would not use spokes that are not double-butted, and some agreement that single butted spokes are not as good as double. Does any of this matter to me? I'm just a casual street rider.
 
Thanks. FWIW MikesXS still lists cadmium plated spokes for about half the price of stainless steel.

Then there is the argument about straight gauge or butted. I saw someone post on another board that he would not use spokes that are not double-butted, and some agreement that single butted spokes are not as good as double. Does any of this matter to me? I'm just a casual street rider.

Hi happydaze,
most likely MikesXS cadmium plated spokes ain't, they are probably mis-labelled zinc plated spokes but don't buy plated spokes anyway, s/st spokes are not quite as strong as piano wire (carbon steel) spokes but they are plenty strong enough and won't ever go rusty while with plated spokes it's just a matter of time.
Butted spokes have thicker ends, is all. If your normal spoke is (say) 12ga while the butted spoke is 12ga with 10ga ends, that's a good thing because most spokes fail by having the head break off.
Mind you, the fat ends have to fit through the spoke holes or you can't use them.
OTOH if the butted spoke is (say) 14ga with 12ga ends it's no stronger than a straight 12ga spoke and while the weight saving may be important to a bicycle racer it's insignificant for us.
 
Thanks for the info. I'll probably go w/ stainless steel straight gauge spokes. I think black anodized might look cool too, but stainless are probably more likely to keep looking good for a long time.
 
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