75 build

[Elozano]

Hello everybody just got this 75 xs650 that I bought for $250 with no title (going to try to sort that out before i get too far) and being as I've never built a bike before I thought it may be a good idea to keep everything documented here so I have some help along the way. The plan is to hardtail it and use as a daily for around town.
I'll try to get some pics on here soon, don't think it's going to let me upload on my phone. I've started tearing down the bike so far and completely removed ALL the stock wiring since it was falling apart as I touched it (no clue how I'm going to put it back together), been working on shaving the forks, got some new bars, throttle, and grips for it, also have a 66 sportster tank on the way.

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[fredintoon]

Hi Elozano and welcome,
I hope you haven't shaved the forks so much that you can't use a front brake.
You need a front brake a lot more than you need a rear suspension.
About that; if you really must build a hardtail, buy a titled neck (there's usually one in the list's classifieds) and scratch build.
That way you can keep the stock frame for future use after your chiropractor tells you what that hardtail is doing to your spine.

 

[Elozano]

Well I'd really like to go off this one since it is a little more simple to weld on a hardtail then build completely from scratch. Plus I my house just got broken into and they made off with my welder and dies for the tube bender. I did save the brake tabs, but do I need tabs on both forks?

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[Brassneck]

Nope, just one set of tabs for one set of calipers.

 

[fredintoon]

Well I'd really like to go off this one since it is a little more simple to weld on a hardtail then build completely from scratch. Plus I my house just got broken into and they made off with my welder and dies for the tube bender. I did save the brake tabs, but do I need tabs on both forks?

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Hi Elozano,
that's a bad thing.
Did the thief take a whole bunch of your stuff or just the welder and bender dies?
If the latter you get the sick feeling that the thief was an acquaintance who knew they were there.
If you stay with the single front disk you only need that side's tabs.
Seems that everywhere except in North America the XS650 came with dual front disks.
You'd have to shop foreign to get the '75 model's leftside caliper because they ain't reversible.
Nor are the 35mm front fork models (different design) calipers but the leftside caliper off an XS750/850/1100 Standard drops right on.

 

[Elozano]

Hi Elozano,
that's a bad thing.
Did the thief take a whole bunch of your stuff or just the welder and bender dies?
If the latter you get the sick feeling that the thief was an acquaintance who knew they were there.
If you stay with the single front disk you only need that side's tabs.
Seems that everywhere except in North America the XS650 came with dual front disks.
You'd have to shop foreign to get the '75 model's leftside caliper because they ain't reversible.
Nor are the 35mm front fork models (different design) calipers but the leftside caliper off an XS750/850/1100 Standard drops right on.

They took a few other things, and we have a feeling it was someone we know but don't want to blame anybody unless we know for sure.
Good to know about the other caliper tab, now I can shave one more thing off

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[Elozano]

Can I use a high output coil so that I don't have to have the 2 stock ones under the tank without having to change the ignition system? Just asking because when I look it up a lot of replies point toward getting a new ignition.

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[Elozano]

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Here's the forks, got one just about finished up

 

[fredintoon]

Can I use a high output coil so that I don't have to have the 2 stock ones under the tank without having to change the ignition system? Just asking because when I look it up a lot of replies point toward getting a new ignition.

Hi Elozano,
yes to high output coils because the stock coils were just about adequate when they were new and that was 41 years ago.
But the stock points ignition still needs two of them.
My '84 has a more modern TCI system that uses a single coil with two plug wires but you'd have to swap in the complete system and that won't be cheap.
Easy, yes. Cheap, no.

 

[Elozano]

That's all I want (one coil) just because of how much cleaner it looks
Is there a cheaper very basic setup? Not looking for anything high performance just yet as I'm anxious just to get it going.

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[Elozano]

Found this a couple days ago but I didn't want to buy it just yet because I'm not sure if this is everything I need.

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[fredintoon]

Hi Elozano,
that's Pamcopete's basic set-up, it replaces the points with an electronic gizmo and replaces the two stock small coils with a single big one. You still have to use the stock mechanical advance mechanism.
And yes, it's all you need.
Use the list's "search" function to read how to correctly install a Pamco.
But I gotta say, if your stock points ignition still works OK a Pamco or other ignition upgrade is a want, not a need.

 

[650Skull]

First off ............your getting way ahead of yourself. ................Title is the first thing you need before spending any money on the bike.

Second thing to do is learn to make a basic wiring loom to get the bike running. Once you have done that the next is to learn to tune the motor, keep the points for now, do any work, like compression test, and look for signs of damaged or worn rings, (smoke), May have some smoke on initial start up because it hasn't been running for a while, and get the carbs striped, cleaned and rebuilt. ...........These are things you are going to have to do in your build so why not now while waiting to get a title.

If you fail in getting a title then what has been done will be a learning experience for the next project and will add money to what you have, or buy a titled neck for your frame and get someone to weld it on for you. Either way, your way ahead on experience and into the build as far as the motor and electrical is concerned and not out of pocket if it all falls over

 

[Elozano]

First off ............your getting way ahead of yourself. ................Title is the first thing you need before spending any money on the bike.

Second thing to do is learn to make a basic wiring loom to get the bike running. Once you have done that the next is to learn to tune the motor, keep the points for now, do any work, like compression test, and signs of damaged or worn rings, and get the carbs striped, cleaned and rebuilt. ...........These are things you are going to have to do in your build so why not now while waiting to get a title.

If you fail in getting a title then what has been done will be a learning experience for the next project and will add money to what you have, or buy a titled neck for your frame and get someone to weld it on for you. Either way, your way ahead on experience and into the build as far as the motor and electrical is concerned and not out of pocket if it all falls over

The way I see it, if it doesn't work out with getting the title I will already have some decent parts for the next bike. I'm going to try to do lean on it since I've been able to get a title for my truck like that before.
Has pretty good compression as far as I can tell, I do plan on rebuilding the carbs here in the next couple weeks can't see it being much different then banshee carbs (I've done the carbs on mine before) thanks for the concern though.

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[Elozano]

Hi Elozano,
that's Pamcopete's basic set-up, it replaces the points with an electronic gizmo and replaces the two stock small coils with a single big one. You still have to use the stock mechanical advance mechanism.
And yes, it's all you need.
Use the list's "search" function to read how to correctly install a Pamco.
But I gotta say, if your stock points ignition still works OK a Pamco or other ignition upgrade is a want, not a need.

Thank you Fred, you are correct I do "want" it more then I need it just because of how much cleaner one coil looks under the tank.

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[650Skull]

The way I see it, if it doesn't work out with getting the title I will already have some decent parts for the next bike. I'm going to try to do lean on it since I've been able to get a title for my truck like that before.
Has pretty good compression as far as I can tell, I do plan on rebuilding the carbs here in the next couple weeks can't see it being much different then banshee carbs (I've done the carbs on mine before) thanks for the concern though.

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Not concern...........Advice. ..............so many get ahead of them selves and then have all sorts of problems because they didn't learn and change so many things tearing into a build. This leads to problems down the track and then they are back on here asking how to fix a problem when it could be related to any one of the dozen things done to the bike, because they failed to do things through a step by step process.

Have you actually done a compression test............If not there is no way to tell if it is good or not, maybe someone who has worked on bikes for many, many ears could have an idea but even they will say they can't tell, till a proper test id done.

 

[Elozano]

Not concern...........Advice. ..............so many get ahead of them selves and then have all sorts of problems because they didn't learn and change so many things tearing into a build. This leads to problems down the track and then they are back on here asking how to fix a problem when it could be related to any one of the dozen things done to the bike, because they failed to do things through a step by step process.

Have you actually done a compression test............If not there is no way to tell if it is good or not, maybe someone who has worked on bikes for many, many ears could have an idea but even they will say they can't tell, till a proper test id done.

I plan on doing everything step by step from a stripped motor which would give me a complete understanding of how everything is supposed to work. I have built engines before so I have a pretty good idea of what to keep an eye out for just nice to have some help along the way.
It was my understanding that, that was what build threads are for. To ask questions and get help while keeping everything documented.
Thanks for the advice

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[650Skull]

Its only advice if people listen to it.

3rd time lucky...............

Your approach is from the middle not the beginning

new ignition, new charging system, means new Solid state Reg/rect, new wiring loom, (have to have one anyways). Put it all together............Maybe it will work maybe it won't, most of these threads here are because it doesn't. With all the changes made at once, and without knowing if it was working before, makes for difficult diagnostics. Changing one thing at a time and making sure that worked then doing another, again making sure it works.

If things don't work ask a question., yes that is what we/site are/is here for.

When a multitude of things done and problems arise there is a lot of time and a multitude of answers that may or may not be related to the problem, and you have to sort through all of those answers and relate them to several different problems at once................

You think that we are here to answer anything you ask............. then the input will also depend on how you approach this.

My approach here was to enable a quicker more efficient question and answer situation

 

[Elozano]

Its only advice if people listen to it.

3rd time lucky...............

Your approach is from the middle not the beginning

new ignition, new charging system, means new Solid state Reg/rect, new wiring loom, (have to have one anyways). Put it all together............Maybe it will work maybe it won't, most of these threads here are because it doesn't. With all the changes made at once, and without knowing if it was working before, makes for difficult diagnostics. Changing one thing at a time and making sure that worked then doing another, again making sure it works.

If things don't work ask a question., yes that is what we/site are/is here for.

When a multitude of things done and problems arise there is a lot of time and a multitude of answers that may or may not be related to the problem, and you have to sort through all of those answers and relate them to several different problems at once................

You think that we are here to answer anything you ask............. then the input will also depend on how you approach this.

My approach here was to enable a quicker more efficient question and answer situation

Well like I stated above, the wiring was in such bad shape that it was falling apart to the touch so it's not very likely that I would have got a very positive diagnostic. As far as starting from the middle I was referring to the wiring. With all the wiring completely taken off the bike I will have to start from the beginning and learn as I go.

 

[650Skull]

I did suggest making a basic loom to get it running in my first post. easy to do plenty that will help and lots of threads on this.

Anyways have fun on your build