77 Wobble over 60mph?!?

Sdadyo

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I get a scary wobble when I get up over 60mph on my 77 xs650. The swing arm bushings were shot so I did the needle bearing conversion. The wobble is definitely not as bad but I wouldn't want to stay on the highway very long.

I also tightened the rear springs. Could they be shot?

What are other things that could cause this?
 
Guesding, The front end is just as suspect as the rear without feeling it happen.
Tire condition and pressure?
Steering stem and fork condition?
A wobble at 60 is not at all normal or acceptable. Could you post pics as well as more info?
 
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Good looking front end.
Although on screen that front tire is definitely not new.
Are you aware what "cupping" is? That front tread, if it's wearing down could start a wobble but you should feel that in the handlebars!
 
The whole thing felt like a jet ski before I switched the swing arm bearings/bushings. It did let up but I need new tires anyway. these came with the bike when I bought it in January. No idea what/if the kind of miles are on them. Suggestion on tires for this bike?

Maybe new tires will diminish the wobble?
Whats cupping?
 
Thinking out loud
Front wheel bearing . ? They test them at the MOT Inspection .Lifting the Wheel off the ground spinning it
If central stand it is done on it -- pushing down the rear
Spinning with a machine .. i think listening for Noise as common with worn bearings.
I have replaced once.
 
Thinking out loud
Front wheel bearing . ? They test them at the MOT Inspection .Lifting the Wheel off the ground spinning it
If central stand it is done on it -- pushing down the rear
Spinning with a machine .. i think listening for Noise as common with worn bearings.
I have replaced once.
I lifted the front end and tried to wiggle the tire. I didn't have movement.

Ill try to get it spinning with my drill.
 
Swingarm bushing replacement is necessary but I don't get the "needle bearing" change. To me needle bearings are better needed in precise, high rpm application such as in piston rods.
Maybe there is too much slack in the swingarm side to side? That should be easy to feel too on centerstand.
Would you be opposed to slightly longer rear shocks? Maybe longer and with better damping? The rear end up is an advantage for handling.
 
My guess is either tires (just stare at them and look for cupping) - or the steering head bearings are brinnelled and need to be changed.

It is not a big job nor is it particularly expensive. Brinnelling means that the bearings have tiny dents worn in them and as the bike wanders a bit from side to side, it seeks to put a ball into one of the little "dents" - and that hunting back and forth comes out as a wobble.

Most 40+ year old bikes need new head bearings - get yourself a set from All Balls Racing.

Pete
 
Swingarm bushing replacement is necessary but I don't get the "needle bearing" change. To me needle bearings are better needed in precise, high rpm application such as in piston rods.
Maybe there is too much slack in the swingarm side to side? That should be easy to feel too on centerstand.
Would you be opposed to slightly longer rear shocks? Maybe longer and with better damping? The rear end up is an advantage for handling.
I was looking at some rear shocks. What do you ride?
 
How many miles on a tire is insignificant. They sit not being moved long enough....flat spot. Tireshave a shelf life. I have a local place that sells NOS tires for display only. Bearings are the same way. We have a PM at work to turn motor shafts for bearing life. It's cheap enough to take your wheels off, change bearings, and balance. Like Willis said, check your spokes. Expense, obviously comes with replacing tires. Might as well since you have the wheels off. If you didn't personally build or overhaul this machine, you better go thru everything.
 
I see you have those cheapo, stiff as Hell rear shocks. Rear shocks that are too stiff can transmit through the frame and cause a wobble in the front. But yes, you need to check everything. When I first got my '78, it had a minor "head shake" in the front end. It didn't go away completely until I had done everything (swingarm bushings, new front tire, fork overhaul, steering bearings, fork brace).
 
I was looking at some rear shocks. What do you ride?
340mm-350mm eye to eye centers is a good consideration for you. It is difficult to suggest a brand. Prices go from cheap to through the roof. If you have the ability to custom fit, well then it is easier to shop for options. I did custom fit 2017 Triumph Speed Twin shocks on this XS for $100 and did just test them over rough railroad tracks a few times. Very pleased.
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the steering head bearings are brinnelled and need to be changed.

It is not a big job nor is it particularly expensive. Brinnelling means that the bearings have tiny dents worn in them and as the bike wanders a bit from side to side

An example of Brinnelling that Pete referred to, taken from my 60th Birthday thread, this caused my steering to be very notchy feeling and cased my bike to swerve.
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post #647
http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-60th-birthday-present.47639/page-33#post-506277

Post #686
http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-60th-birthday-present.47639/page-35#post-507177

I also had a brand new Triumph in 2007 that had a defective front tire , right outside the box, that caused that bike to have a scary wobble. Replaced the tire and all was well.
 
...and I should have added that tapered roller bearings are much superior to the ball bearings which most manufacturers install at the factory.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with ball bearings - when they are new - but their cost and more importantly, their load-bearing capacity is lower than tapered rollers and so they tend to become damaged (brinnelled) fairly rapidly in applications such as motorcycle steering heads. Doing something like a wheelie (not normally a concern with the XS650....:D) or hitting a curb will cause an individual ball in the bearing set to "dent" the inner and outer rings (they are actually called "races") and these dents are what cause "notchy" operation - which often results in a wobble.

As noted, the likely best source of replacement bearings is All Balls Racing - they have bearing kits for just about every bike.

On that issue - everyone should understand that items such as seals, nuts and bolts and bearings - are standard mechanical components and virtually all OEMs use these standard components. Furthermore, I would say that none of them (i.e. not Yamaha, Honda, Chevrolet, BMW or Toyota) would ever consider making their own standard mechanical components - so if you can find the correct component sizes and search for that set of sizes - you shall find what you need.

About the only exceptions to these guidelines would be specialized items such as crank bearings, crankshaft seals in 2-strokes - and likely some others that I can't think of right now. However, more traditional applications such as wheel and transmission bearings and seals and steering head bearings are standard mechanical items and they should be widely available.

The beauty of dealing with an outfit such as All Balls Racing is that they have figured out the correct sizes and load ratings - and packaged the correct components into kits for each bike and the cost is surprisingly low.

Pete
 
When I first bought my ‘77, the handling was absolutely atrocious. New tires with modern tread design and tapered steering head bearings absolutely transformed that bikes handling. I eventually replaced the worn swingarm bushings as well, but the difference in handling wasn’t as noticeable.
 
Unfortunately, the steering head bearings are a rather odd size so you can't really buy them "off the shelf" anywhere. But, as mentioned, many kits are available. Try to get a kit that includes seals (the AllBalls kit does). Although the kit comes with two seals, top and bottom, you only really need the bottom one. Gravity will keep the grease from coming out the top one, and besides, it has a big tin cover over it anyway. Some kits, like the one from MikesXS, don't include seals.
 
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